Innovating Leadership:
Co-Creating Our Future

Resources:

Find out more about Ugo’s work with Smart City at https://www.smartcityexpo.com/. You can learn more about Nikki’s work as a futurist at https://www.nikkigreenberg.com/.

Our host Maureen Metcalf posts a newsletter every week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.

Maureen’s latest book is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. You’ll find details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI, or check out the Kindle version at https://amzn.to/44buVz8. The audiobook version is now available at  https://amzn.to/4dTCleZ.

Her other 10 books are available on Amazon here.

Other episodes you’ll enjoy:

– Back to the Future…of Work with Jim Ritchie-Dunham, Suzie Lewis, & David Dinwoodie

– Prepare for the Future with Foresight with Dr. Ciela Hartanov

– The Future Is Yours to Create with Rebecca Ryan

Guest(s):

Guest(s) Bio:

Ugo Valenti is a Barcelona-based leader in the global smart-cities and urban innovation space. He currently serves as Business Unit Director for the Cities & Society portfolio at Fira Barcelona and is the Managing Director of Smart City Expo World Congress (SCEWC), the flagship event that has become one of the world’s largest convenings for city transformation. In this role, Ugo helps connect governments, corporations, startups, and academia through large-scale events and digital platforms designed to accelerate the adoption of solutions that make cities more sustainable, inclusive, and livable.

He has directed SCEWC since 2014, overseeing its evolution into a truly global platform—drawing tens of thousands of attendees from well over 100 countries and more than a thousand exhibitors annually. His broader portfolio includes Tomorrow Mobility World Congress, Tomorrow Building World Congress, Tomorrow Blue Economy World Congress, and Tomorrow.City, reflecting a focus on the future of urban life across transportation, infrastructure, climate resilience, and digital innovation.

Nikki Greenberg is a futurist and multi-award-winning keynote speaker, focused on preparing organizations for a tech-enabled future. She helps leaders reimagine their businesses to bring them into alignment with the increasingly digitized way that people live, work, and communicate today. ​

She has held leadership positions with Fortune 500s, and most recently served as the Head of Technology Strategy for Real Estate at QIC, an Australian investment manager with a $70 billion portfolio of assets under management. She is the founder and global ambassador of Women in PropTech and former three-term co-chair of the Technology & Innovation Council for ULI in New York City.

Transcript
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Maureen: [00:00:00] Welcome to Innovating Leadership Co-Creating Our Future. I’m your host, Maureen Metcalf, CEO, and founder of the Innovative Leadership Institute. In today’s episode, we’re joined by two global voices shaping the future of our cities. Nikki Greenberg, a futurist and urban strategist driving transformation on the ground, and Hugo Valente, managing director of the Smart Cities Expo Con Beep.

Hugo VoLTE, managing director of Smart City Expo World Conference, a convener of global urban innovation. Together, Nikki Ino bring complimentary perspectives on how leaders, whether in government, business or civil society, can navigate the changes of ai. Climate change and global uncertainty while building resilient, thriving [00:01:00] cities.

Their insights aren’t just for city planners, they’re for anyone who leads in a world increasingly shaped by urban dynamics. Whether you’re a CEO, a startup founder, a nonprofit director, or a public. Official. This conversation will help you understand how the future of cities impacts your leadership and how you can be part of shaping it.

So first, Ugo and Nikki, welcome. Thank you for joining us today.

Nikki: Thanks for having us.

Ugo: Thank you very much, Maureen. Pleasure.

Maureen: So we’re gonna jump right in. Cities are hubs of innovation, commerce, and culture. Why should businesses and organization leaders beyond city officials care deeply about how cities are led and designed?

Nikki: I can start with this one. think it’s in the name CBD, you know, central Business District. And this is the thing is that. [00:02:00] are centers of knowledge and business and culture and arts, and that’s where we just have this density of people. So it’s no mistake that businesses tend to locate themselves in cities.

They are, you know, designed for it. They have great transportation links, which means that you can bring in talent from a few different directions. You have the arts, you have restaurants, uh, you have, you have, you know, all the amenities that you need. I think just like if you wanna just take a step back and think about something quite tangible in this regard. Even if we look at the return to office after the pandemic and how a lot of business leaders, they really wanted to get their people back, you know, back into the office back. Having that sense of community. People looked at, well, what are they actually coming back to? Because it’s more than just the building, it’s more than just your colleagues. It’s also the surrounds. It’s, you know, are there great places for lunch? Is it easy to

Maureen: Hmm.

Nikki: What’s the commute like? You know, is it safe? So there’s this direct tie in [00:03:00] between, you know, city innovation, um, you know, talent and the, the office life, the street life, you know, it’s, it’s all interconnected.

Ugo: Okay, it’s C cities are basically where everything converges, right? So innovation, business, culture, and, and, and also human aspiration. So we need to bear in mind that right now 80% of the GDP. created and being generated in cities, right? So that means that when cities work well, business thrive as well, right?

And when cities fail, uh, being, uh, housing or mobility on sustainability collapse, the private sector also suffers, right? So cities are basically this living ecosystems where everything is interconnected.

Maureen: I am living in Columbus, Ohio, and our biggest challenge to expanding our workforce is housing and affordable housing. And, and so that’s a city concern, [00:04:00] not fixed solely by the private sector. It’s zoning, construction. Um, utilities, the whole, whole gamut. And, and at the point where we can’t attract labor, we can’t expand.

Nikki: Cor Correct. It’s, it’s about systems. It’s about systems also. And interestingly enough, so I live in, despite the accent, I live in New York City and I was riding the subway yesterday and there were these two young guys and they had a, like a shopping bag with some placards in it. So I said to one of the guys, I was like, I hope you don’t mind my asking, but what are these placards? And he’s like, oh, we were just at a protest for Rebny, which is the real estate board of New York, who, you know, represent the real estate community. I’m like, well, didn’t tell him who I was by the way. I was like, oh, but why would you, why would you protest against them? And he’s like, well, they represent developers, and developers are bad for the city. They’re driving up housing. I was [00:05:00] like, well. Why do you think that? And we had this discussion and one of the things is, you know, to your point, you know, a lot of cities around the world are having this problem around affordable housing. If it’s not affordable housing or workforce housing, it’s hard for people to actually have a comfortable lifestyle. And part of that really ties into regulation and that red tape to be able to, you know, create new places to create new spaces. Um, I read an article recently that said it’s around 25% of a. Projects cost is just in red tape. it is just in approvals and permits. That doesn’t really add, you know, a sense of being to a place.

So the more that we can streamline, you know, building systems, having this great relationship between, you know, the public sector, private sector, et cetera, then we can actually help solve some of the challenges around affordability, which, you know, ties into business and lifestyle and all the things that you just mentioned.

Ugo: Yeah.

Maureen: I was, uh, reading something this morning, and I’m not gonna remember the source, but [00:06:00] the where I, I realize people will listen to a podcast on demand, so this will not be as relevant in the future, but at this point in time, the US Federal government is shut down. We’re approaching the point where, uh, food benefits will not be available and the city of New York is trying to raise.

A large number, I wanna say $65 billion.

Nikki: I think it’s 650 million, if I’m not mistaken.

Maureen: $650 million for food banks to ensure that hungry people in New York are fed. So it really points to the range of services and the importance of well-run cities.

Ugo: Yeah, Fully, fully agreed. It’s, um, sometimes you need to, you need to have the, the, the mayor of the city, the mayors of the city, really taking decisions over how do they [00:07:00] design this, this city, and, and we were discussing about housing previously. Let me put an example of, of Vien. The Vienna, the city of Vienna and Austria. Right now, Vienna is one of the most L livable cities on earth, and it’s not by chance, but it’s really by leadership design, right? So for over a century, the city has invested in affordable housing, right? And this public private partnerships. So right now, today, 60% of VS people, residents, they live in city supported housing. Right. And where they, they combine this, these different, uh, quality and, and designs, uh, but taking into account the social inclusion for that and developers who access these city lands, they must build at least 50% for social, for social and, and affordable housing. So this is, this is an example of how you can design your city to be truly inclusive and to, and to try to, to, to shorten the gap that happens in other [00:08:00] places of the world.

Nikki: That’s, that’s really interesting. And, and just as a benchmark, it’s about 10% in other places, so for them to have it at 50% is impressive. always, I’m always amazed when a place with a cold climate gets the title of one of the most livable cities or best cities in the world. I’m like, well, you know, as, as an Australian, I’m like, it’s not the weather that’s doing it.

What else are you doing? So well? So, you know, kudos to the Viennese. it’s the bakeries too.

Maureen: So I think you’ve already started to touch on this, but as cities face pressures from climate change, AI and shifting demographics, what leadership qualities are most essential for guiding transformation across the range of sectors that cities need to navigate?

Ugo: Shall I go?

Maureen: Sure.

Ugo: So, so, uh, I believe that that leaders today need to have these, say, three qualities. [00:09:00]One, one is, is vision and collaboration, and also today coverage. And, and the vision is because the, the city leaders need to see beyond the election cycles, which is not easy to do, but, but it’s a must because otherwise it’s just a cycle of four to five years, depending on the countries is, is a very short cycle.

Right. then they need to be able to collaborate because they need to be able to connect different ecosystems together because they need to connect the public. Private, the academic, the, the civic ecosystems together. And finally, it’s, uh, they need discourage because they need to, to, to take decisions that may be, might be unpopular,

Maureen: Mm-hmm.

Ugo: but in the end, they’re essential for, for the day of, of, of tomorrow, right?

So it’s about creating this conditions that allow for innovation, right? And not just, uh, managing, managing resources. Uh, here, here in Barcelona, we have a, we have a, uh, an important examples. Um, [00:10:00] there was a huge, um, uh, backlash from the, from the locals when, when the pri mayor decided to create a tram, uh, um, a train,

Maureen: Mm-hmm.

Ugo: that connected the whole city all around because until the train is done. means that the city from a transport perspective is like, uh, cutting half, right? And, and there are plenty of, when the, but when the train is finished, the whole layout of the city and the whole landscape of the city will change for the better. So sometimes you need to take these type of decisions that are unpopular at one moment in time, but they are partly needed for the, for the, let’s say, for the survival or the, or the growth of the seed in the near future.

Maureen: And that ties directly to what Nikki just said about the protestors in New York.

Nikki: Yeah. And you know, I, I, I love everything you had to say because I’ve got principles that [00:11:00] come from a slightly different perspective because I sit in the private sector the, you know, the three terms are very close, close to yours, Hugo, are. You know, a sense of flexibility because we don’t know what’s coming next, especially as there are different types of emerging technologies. Um, people’s attitudes and values also change. Um, you know, New York for example, used to be, you know, very much leaning in one direction, and now it’s kind of like a smattering of different, um, you know. Social and, uh, you know, social values, for example. you know, even in terms of fixed infrastructure, you don’t know what we necessarily need later on.

So sense of flexibility, I believe is important in, um, in a mindset. Now I’m gonna come back to your train example, um, in a minute. The second thing I believe that leaders need is curiosity and just kind of realizing that what’s always worked doesn’t necessarily work in this moment in time. We’ve always heard this, um, you know, this adage saying, well, we tried it before it didn’t work.

Well, guess [00:12:00] what? You know, yesterday was a very different time today, like when

Maureen: Hmm.

Nikki: this out, did you have AI like we do today? Did you have the same talent? Did you have the same environment? So there needs to be the sense for curiosity. And the third one, I kind of put in a slightly different category, but very much aligned with the, what Uber has just said, is I think you need to actually embody the, um, the willingness to be a visionary. to his point, it’s very hard to do things that might be somewhat unpopular or to take a stance that might be a bit different. And you’re pushing this, um, you know, this boulder up the hill. However, the example I’d actually like to give is there’s the, you know, incredibly famous architect called Frank Lloyd Wright, you know, an American architect.

He designed the Guggenheim Museum. Um, he’s known for the prairie style, you know, absolutely. Brilliant and prolific, and he designed a city called Broadacre City in the 1930s.

Maureen: Hmm.

Nikki: one of the things that he did when he designed Broadacre City is that he was [00:13:00]absolutely enamored with technology and in the 1930s, you know, kind of the new, like the hottest thing at the moment. Was the automobile. when he designed Broad Acre City, he actually lent into designing it around this emerging technology of the automobile having freeways and multi-level car parks and all of that. And he didn’t just stop there, but he also designed it that it had drones in the air. Of his different diagrams.

This is the 1930s, Frank Lloyd Wright, he’s somebody that for all architecture students, all urbanists, all city planners, et cetera, he’s a household name. And the reason that he was able to have this legacy as being, you know, quite literally the greatest of all time, not arguably, but literally the greatest of all time. Is that he really took these chances, but went beyond it. And I think to be an effective leader, you can’t just think about what’s happening today and how to be effective today. You have to think 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, a hundred years into the future and take those chances for that [00:14:00] long-term planning like they are for this new, um, this new rail in Barcelona and beyond.

Maureen: That seems particularly. Compelling right now, and I’m thinking just in the next five years. But we were at Amazon last week for their Delivering the Future Summit and they were talking specifically about sustainability in water and power with all of the data centers and AI and how our cities. Knowing what we know only today, and we assume that’s gonna change dramatically in the next five years, how are we generating power and sustaining a clean environment for what we’re gonna need?

Assuming we continue on the AI path at, at at least the pace we are now, how are we managing water? Where will people live? How will AI impact the. Return to the office [00:15:00] and work from anywhere in digital nomads can with climate pressure. The, the displacement of people I is gonna be dramatic it seems like right now, for city leaders especially, but also for.

Uh, corporate leaders who are trying to figure out where to locate their facilities. This is a really pressing question. And for any employee who’s considering relocating, like, where do I wanna invest in property or do I rent, which ripples through the system of developers and affordable housing and public transit?

Are people continuing to live in cities and, and what transit do we need?

Nikki: Um, I can, I can tackle this one. There’s so, there’s so many great thoughts that came through your mind that I loved hearing about. And while you were talking, something that [00:16:00] kind of stuck out to me a little bit is that this isn’t a new frontier. It’s almost like the gold rush and that towns were created because of the gold rush, because of

Maureen: Mm-hmm.

Nikki: And then you have this, uh, you have this industry, this infrastructure, and then you have informal settlements around, and then it becomes a something. With AI data centers, you know, hyperscalers, et cetera. The big thing, as you mentioned, is really around power. the existing grid isn’t sufficient to support what’s there. And there are technologies now that in all the claim at least is that within eight years you can put up a new nuclear power plant. And there are companies like Microsoft and others that have, um, net zero objectives that they need to. Meat, which means that they’re also looking at sustainable measures such as, um, you know, solar, wind, et cetera, to have as backup power for their, for their data centers. what you start to get is almost like this, like, you know, this, this, this pin drop of an industry. What is our need? It’s like, okay, we need, um, it’s, it’s like [00:17:00] playing some city, right? It’s like saying, okay, we wanna have, you know, there’s this ai. Um, you know, a hyperscaler data center. Therefore we need power, therefore we need homes.

Oh, we’re gonna have homes, but guess what? We need to have schools. We’re gonna have schools. We also need a police station, et cetera. And that’s, that’s how things, um, you know, kind of pop up. But no, more than anything, looking at this new industry, uh. Um, you know, the public sector, the private sector, et cetera, they’re really looking at where do we have resources and making sure that we’re managing them in the right way. And to your point, we, we can’t have one without the other. We can’t have development without thinking about the ramifications and the negative implications, um, of, you know, of what’s gonna happen. ’cause just, you know, un uncontrolled growth for any reason. So, um, it’s, it’s a challenge, but it’s not a new challenge.

It’s, it’s an age old. Challenge, which opens up new opportunities for different markets. You know, we’re not putting hyperscalers in the middle of Central Park in Manhattan. You know, we’re putting them, um, different communities. So it’s great for, you know, job growth and other industries. Um, so long as it’s managed well.[00:18:00]

Maureen: Yeah, I grew up, uh, living right near Ruston, Virginia, so one of the first planned communities in that kind of way of, of a truly integrated city, and it seems like so, so. Aging myself. That was well over 50 years ago. So these kinds of ideas of, and you’re pointing back to the thirties with Frank Lloyd Wright.

So the idea of planning cities isn’t new. The idea of refurbishing. E even Reston, which was a brilliant city and, and still is. I don’t know how well they are situated for what’s coming. Uh, they may, I’m not making a commentary about Reston. I don’t know. The, the point is for people in city leadership, this is even for the most consciously designed cities, the [00:19:00] evolution is crucial.

Ugo: Absolutely. Um, but, uh, I am a huge believer on, on the human ability to innovate constantly. So, uh, let me put another example. It’s not North American, but I believe it’s a very good example. Uh, Medellin Medel in Colombia. Was a city that was more, was known, uh, best known for Pablo Cobar and, and the drug dealership than, than, uh, being an innovative city.

But Meinen made a huge change. They had this, this, uh, hill, uh, let’s say this mountain. And they had like, uh, the people that lived in the, in the lower part of the city and the people that lived in the higher part of the city, and they were not connected at all. Uh, but they created this metro cable line. And, uh, uh, prior to that, it took more than one hour to get to one part to another. And after creating this metro line, this, this metro cab, [00:20:00] call it Metro Cab, uh, in just a minutes, they could be in another part of the city and then. A huge new sea of opportunities arose in Medelen. these people got to have new jobs, uh, and the whole city was interconnected.

And Medelen actually in the 2014 or 2015, I believe, was, uh, was mentioned as the most innovative city in the world. so, so there are. Uh, there are wonderful opportunities to change, uh, the whole landscape of a city by, by being smart. Uh, and, and I’m not, I’m not talking about, uh, applying the, the wonderful new technologies that we have.

I’m, I’m talking about just changing the design and how to, and, and, and how to apply on city. So pretty positive, I’m optimist by, by nature, but I’m pretty positive that, uh, of course there will be, uh. Huge new challenges that, uh, that we will face, pretty sure that, uh, we are, uh, we are very adaptable.

The, [00:21:00] the human, the human is is, is very adaptable, and we will find ways to innovate and to be able to overcome all, all of these challenges.

Maureen: So uo, I wanna build on that statement. We haven’t talked about what the smart city World Congress does, uh, and. Leveraging that with the question, how do innovations in one city influence others and, and also how can business leaders learn from this idea of cross pollination?

Ugo: Yeah. Um, the, what we do at the event, the, the Smart City Export Congress is, is basically a

Maureen: I.

Ugo: event where we bring over, uh, almost 1000 cities from all over the world as well as. Uh, over 1200 exhibitors from all over the world as well. So there, there’s this huge, as you mentioned, this cross-pollination of both cultures, uh, innovations and, and best practices that are shared together. this, this creates a wonderful opportunity for a [00:22:00] city from Asia to showcase what they’re doing to a city from the. States or a city from Latin America, or city from Europe, right? And at the same time, this creates a, uh, wonderful opportunities for a, for a US company to sell their solutions to, to other places in the, in the world. So we are this platform that connects and ties up everything together. of course, we have a wonderful conference, uh, headlined by Nicky in this, this, in this edition of the event. But, but, uh, with, uh, the, the best speakers in the world in relation to, to, to urban innovation and, and. This is, this is wonderful because, uh, this creates a platform where we can showcase things that are happening on a city that are working very well.

And let me be very brief with this example, but I, but I want to explain this because. There’s this, uh, this, this grid of three by three St. Streets here in Barcelona that we call Super Grid. The outer part of the three by three streets is used for traffic flow, and the inner part of the [00:23:00] streets is just used for pedestrian use or cycling use.

Right? this was created like, I don’t know, maybe five. years ago, it’s called, uh, super Blocks Super in, in Spanish, and this has changed the whole layout. Of all the areas in, in, uh, that, uh, in, uh, in which, uh, this, this solution has been applied, right? So the quality of, uh, noise and air has increased by 25% of those areas. the, the, the space, the inner space has been reused for pedestrian use, for greener use. There are more shops, there are more, uh, more bus, more restaurants, more locals. All of, all of the locals and tourists are going through the streets. Uh, the, the regeneration of this area, of that area has increased, uh, quite a lot. So it’s, it’s, it’s wonderful and there’s no technology applied here. and, uh, the, and what I wanted to mention here is that this solution is basically exactly what you can see [00:24:00] today in times a square in New York City. I remember in Times Square, New York City when I was there, like, I don’t know, maybe 15, 20 years ago.

It was basically, there were plenty of cars. Right now it’s a pedestrian area. It it has, it is completely revitalized. And, and, and not only Times Square, I’m aware of that, but, but it’s, it’s, uh, plenty of areas. So, so this showcases. That one solution applied on one city of the world is replicable. Of course, it needs to be adapted to the culture and to the reality, but in another city of the world, and if it happens in Barcelona and New York City, it can happen in Rome, it can happen in Shanghai, and it can happen in in Delhi. That’s what we do. Yeah.

Maureen: Beautiful. Nikki, I wanna jump to you now. You often talk about human-centric design, which leverages what Hugo just mentioned. How can leaders balance technology advancements that we’re talking about with AI A and different technologies within cities with [00:25:00] livability? And why is this balance crucial to long-term business success?

Nikki: I love the meatiness of this question, and no, this is very much the intersection where I sit between, you know, built world design, technology and business. You know, my, my, uh, my background is I’m an architect that went to business school, which is almost, almost unheard of. It’s like, why? It’s like why, you know? Um, so is the thing, and I kind of dumb things down a little bit and I, I apologize to AI in advance for, for doing this, but AI is just a better technology. That’s really all it is. And when we look at tech and we think, well, what should we be doing with ai, et cetera, it’s like, well, actually it just means that the technology we’ve been using has gotten better. A lot of the things that we used to do, like long workarounds for now we can do it actually in a lot more of an efficient way. So there’s this beautiful synergy between using advanced technologies and finding efficiencies, [00:26:00] whether it’s in the public sector or the private sector. And you know, there’s this one example that I love.

Um, I’ll give a public sector example where I believe it was the city of Detroit. What they did is they applied AI to their snowplows. It’s like, okay. what, so you know how when you have, um, Waymo, it’ll find the best route? We’ll find the optimal route. And same as when you have your Lyft or your Uber or whatever, same thing, it finds the optimal route. What these snow cows can do is they can actually figure out using ai, which are the routes that it should be clearing first when there’s a snow storm, and do the main roads first. Where does there tend to be pile on the most? You know, actually using this. Data to be more efficient about its roots. And what it ultimately meant is that by having the same number of snowplows, they could cover a lot more ground, which essentially meant that it brought the cost down of the equipment.

I’m like, hooray, that all sounds wonderful. So, you know, and it just meant that also like the, you know, the, [00:27:00] the wonderful people that were operating the, um, the snowplows that, you know, their time is pretty valuable. There’s not many of them. That they could actually be put to their highest and best use, being on the job and making the most impact.

Um. In the private sector, there’s this emerging discipline called digital master planning, and I had the great opportunity to run a pilot project within this, um, you know, about a couple of years ago. what digital master planning is, is designing the digital experience through the lens of an individual.

So what does that mean? So it means that if, say we have an office building the way that a worker uses the building versus a caterer, versus say a repair person, they’re all navigating the building in different ways. And digital master planning is akin to thinking about in tech, we have, you know, UX design, user experience design. They can actually start thinking about, well, how can you optimize that journey for a [00:28:00] person through this building in the best way? That it’s, you know, that it’s efficient, it’s, you know, easy for them. Um, and you’re kind of looking at every single touch point. So there’s starting to be within the, you know, within both the public sector and the private sector, this greater, you know, recognition around how we can use technology both for efficiency, but also for optimizing the use of.

Labor and also for improving the human experience. And I could go on about this for, for hours on end, but, um, needless to say that, you know, amongst professionals, there’s more of a recognition about how we bring all of these elements together.

Maureen: So I’m curious. And I don’t know if this is a reasonable question, so beep, Dan, if this is not a reasonable question, you’ll take it out. Um, Nikki, as a futurist, do you have a sense of a, as we think of AI and climate change and whatever is next, as we’re [00:29:00] talking carbon neutral in some E, even though the US may be pushing back, companies like Microsoft and Amazon and Google are making these.

Big commitments. Do you have a sense of what cities will look like 10 years from now? Are we moving to people still being back in the office, or are we looking at some more geographically dispersed orientation?

Nikki: Cities are very slow to evolve. Um, and sometimes they might have a little bump, a little glitch, and then they keep going on their merry way, as we saw in the pandemic. And again, for me, sitting in New York City, New York looks pretty similar to how it was in 2019. And even though we had the glitch with the office market, now we’re getting new headlines saying, you know, record, you know, record, um, VA record, occupancy, and [00:30:00] record. um, rent rolls are being, you know, like things, things kind of bounce back. So it’s, it’s more about these longer term trends that we look towards. Um, you mentioned things around sustainability, you know, and, you know, I’d love to for Ugo to talk to some of these examples too, but, you know, Europe is really taking a leading role there around circular economy to make sure

Maureen: Mm-hmm.

Nikki: They’re getting more electric cars, having, you know, less traffic. Um, you know, thinking about the way that we use materials in a way that’s effective and efficient and not so wasteful. Um. Working in the office in 10 years time. Yeah. We’ll still have people working in the office. We’ll have people working in remote, remote.

We’ll probably still be having webinars about, you know, return to office and, you know, when’s that gonna happen, et cetera. So, so, so change is, change is slow, but ultimately because of the new technologies that are coming out and constantly evolving and opening up new opportunities for us, we’ll start to see kind of this.

Like, you know, [00:31:00] gradual change towards, um, you know, things that are already happening, happening in, um, in, in larger quantities, I suppose. But I wouldn’t say there’s anything dramatic there. But, um, as we were discussing before, there’s still the opportunity for, you know, cities that aren’t, you know, London, New York.

Tokyo, et cetera, to also have quite thriving communities, especially, um, you know, around, you know, new, new industries, new hubs. And as long as they have those great lifestyle attributes, then they become, you know, great, uh, business attract. Um, you know, because, because you can be anywhere when you are working remote.

Maureen: I actually contributed to, or wrote a book, chapter co-wrote a chapter in a book on circular economy funded by the German. Uh, German government and co-authored with someone from the Netherlands. And so our chapter was on leadership, but it did look at circularity through the range of aspects [00:32:00] of, of the product lifecycle and, and organizational lifecycle.

So, so I appreciate your bringing that up because it does seem like that’s another. Um, variable in the equation of how do we live going forward. And Ko, please jump in.

Ugo: yeah, yeah. It’s, uh, um, you had this, this question, how do we see cities 10 years from now? And, uh, of course, uh, as, as Nikki was saying there, there might be plenty of trends, but there is one trend that I truly see and it’s, uh, I see them greener than,

Maureen: Hmm.

Ugo: today. it’s. believe this trend is, is, is almost unstoppable in this, in this sense.

And, uh, every, uh, right now, you, you know, that most cities, um, for instance in the States were designed mostly for the use of cars. But that’s, that’s, that’s something that we all know. It’s, it’s, it’s gonna change and it needs to change somehow. So, um, I wanted to put the example in, in [00:33:00]Copenhagen right now.

Uh, I know they are very. Far ahead of the rest of the world. But right now, 50% of people in Copenhagen, uh, go to work by bike right now. They move basically by bike. uh, what they’re doing is, is, uh, they, they understanding how they can become smarter, uh, smarter in the sense that. can they improve the rides by bike by 10 or 20% and how they can even increase up to 75% the use of bikes in the, in the city right. By 2030 or less. So I believe this is a trend that it’s, it’s an ongoing trend. And even if you get to see the, the five year plant that China has, uh, has just launched and, and established, they are talking about having a, a greener China and, and, and, and improving the, the use of, uh, green energies. And also, uh, makes cities more green.

Right now, a city that is more or less designed by, by, from the ground up, like is Shenzhen. Uh, 50% of the, let’s say, of the, of the landscape [00:34:00] is, is already green. So they’re taking that into account, uh, at a, at a, at a huge effort, right? So I believe Europe might believe the north of Europe might believe in the way, but I believe the whole world is gonna, is gonna follow up on that.

Maureen: So when you say green, I just wanna, um, clarify that’s not only green energy, but also more landscape plants.

Ugo: green, green spaces. Exactly. It’s uh, this is something. here, here in Europe, you know that, uh, we have very workable areas, right? When, when there is green on the street, the, uh, in, in the summertime, the temperature is more or less bearable. If, if it’s or only concrete, it’s almost impossible to walk around.

It’s because the, the temperature of the, of the floor is, is. So high that you cannot, uh, that you, you cannot even go out. So it, no, I’m, I’m not talking only about the use of green energies, but I’m, but I’m really talking about the use of, uh, the, of green in the, in the, in the spaces, in the buildings. Uh, yeah.[00:35:00]

Maureen: Beautiful. And Nikki, uh, please jump in.

Nikki: Yeah. Um, I might add another green into it. And it’s Greenville, South Carolina. Um, I was there last week and. I think one of the things is that when we look at the European context versus the US context, it’s quite different. And you know, Maureen being, and Dan being in the US I think there’s a little bit of, oh, that might work in Europe, but not necessarily all through, um, the us you know, US is, um, depending on where you are, can be very, very car reliant.

And, you know, when I’m in, you know, Boise, Idaho, you need a car. That’s not about to change anytime soon. It’s a very different context. So Greenville, South Carolina, gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous place. And I, ’cause this is what I do. I read through their 2040 strategy and a little bit of what Ugo is talking about.

One of their core pillars have three core pillars is around having six, I believe it’s 65% green space. So maintaining [00:36:00] the landscape. Because they know that is the attractor. That’s what makes their community so special. And what they’re doing is that when it comes to development, they’re going, it is called inwards and upwards.

So it means that we, there is already development. They’re redeveloping that and they’re building taller so that they. Can preserve the landscape. Um, a second principle of theirs was around, um, you know, affordable housing. So I think they took it from, I think it was 8.5% to 10%. then the third pillar was around mobility and transportation and I said I’d come back to this when UGA was talking about the trains, and this is where I kind of fall in love.

You know, this is where I fall in love with emerging technologies and smart cities. This sounds so basic, but I think it’s one of the most amazing things, and I know there’ll probably be a transport planner coming over and saying, Nikki, you’ve got it wrong, but hear me out. So autonomous, autonomous shuttles. Have possibilities. So think of a band where you can [00:37:00] put six people in and away it goes. one of the nicknames that they have is a trackless tram, because what you can do is instead of fix putting in fixed infrastructure for a new train line, instead you can have a road and then you can train all of these little shadows to go along that route time, after time, after time, so that that speed to be able to be operational is so much faster. When you need to increase capacity, guess what? You bring more of these little vans along. If you have a special event or if there’s a detour, you can move them around. And I think to me, this is kind of what the power of smart cities is. It’s that understanding that there is the way that’s always worked, but there’s also emerging technologies that can actually bring efficiencies and operational advantages to things.

So, um, so yeah, that’s my plug for, know, trackless trams. Driverless driverless shuttles.

Maureen: That solves such a big problem. I grew up in the DC area, worked in Crystal City, and my [00:38:00] commute was about an hour. Parking was expensive for an entry level person, so I did this. Kind of ride sharing thing, but the ride sharing thing only worked if you didn’t have to work overtime. If you had to work overtime, there was no opportunity to get home.

And sleeping in the office wasn’t a good OP option. So, uh, as my career developed with my next employer, or I asked about ride sharing, and they basically said, we pay you enough money to have a car. So. If we want you to work overtime, you will work overtime. Uh, and so this idea of, and we weren’t on a bus line, which answers the why, you could have just taken a bus.

The trackless trams solve that problem if they come with certain regularity and doesn’t require the economics of installing another bus line if there aren’t sufficient riders [00:39:00] to. Or make that an economic option.

Ugo: Yeah, but here is what, where base on demand, for instance, enter the race. It’s, uh, um, the, the, the ULA problem is that when you’re thinking about the bus line, you have these regular stops. So you

Maureen: Mm-hmm.

Ugo: I don’t know, 20 minutes, you will have a bus coming over and doing this exact same line, uh, whatever.

There’s a person there, or, or many people are not. uh, but you can apply base on demand. It only needs some. Um, I mean, software applications, it’s, it’s very basic. And if there’s a, uh, I don’t know, maybe two, three people that are ordering the bus, the bus just comes and, and, and takes you home. It’s, it’s as simple as, I mean, in some cases it might be as simple as that.

Maureen: I love that.

Ugo: Yeah.

Maureen: So let’s jump to then future proofing leadership. What should leaders, whether in cities or companies be doing today to prepare for the urban [00:40:00] realities of 2030 and beyond?

Nikki: I can start

Maureen: Mm-hmm.

Nikki: the quote unquote, futurist. I think the thing is, and it comes back to some of the principles that both the Hugo and I to share a perspective on, is that you have to be willing to think big, and you have to understand that the world around us has changed and there are new technologies. There’s this younger generation coming in that have grown up with no TikTok and iPhones and all the rest, and that’s the reality that they know. So. As leaders, we actually do have an obligation to make sure that both our places and organizations are future ready. if we wanna look at this in kind of a practical tip, kind of. Term, um, Dirk Backer, um, who’s the CEO of Collier’s Netherlands, for example. I had a great conversation with him and one of the things that, you know, he’s, he’s a very experienced, um, senior leader, which means that he has white hair, um, wonderful man. And what he, you know, which, you know, [00:41:00] love it. And what he said to me is that he realized that about a third of the people in his office were under 35, and he kind of said, well, look. represent our clientele and the next generation, why don’t they have a seat at the table? And he started what he calls the Young Sounding Board, which is a board of young employees who have the same responsibilities as a traditional board except for financial responsibilities. And in that way, they were giving real opportunities, real voices to younger employees to shape the. The organization, and I think it’s initiatives like this that we need to remember that in the same way as we talk about diversity in different ways around, you know, you know, race and gender and all, you know, um, you know, neurodiversity, et cetera. We also need to realize that, um, that generational diversity is also another lens through which we need to, you know, coexist and have represented at the table to get [00:42:00] those different perspectives.

So that would be my, um. You could say.

Ugo: Yeah, I, I believe that we’re, we’re having a world that it’s not only complicated, but it’s getting complex. So, so it’s not only about thinking strategically, but really, uh, thinking about systemically sy it’s the right word. I’m sorry for it’s systemically right? It’s, it’s, it’s a different way of, of, uh, of, uh, of understanding how to deal with complex problem solving.

This is what is gonna happen in the near future here.

Maureen: Well, and your organization is brilliant in helping bring that about.

Ugo: That’s what we try to, that’s what we try to, to achieve. It’s, we, we have all these different initiatives and problems on the table, and, and how can we create this huge network of people that all of us are urban innovators, and how can we work [00:43:00] together towards sorting out those problems and basically giving a better quality of life to, to, to the, to the citizens of the future. That’s the idea.

Maureen: Yes, please, Nikki.

Nikki: can I off maybe piggyback off that idea and, you know, this idea of collaboration and sharing and it goes beyond just even, um, you know, human beings or leaders sharing it also goes into tech. And one of the examples I can give is around, um, UAVs, you know, unmanned aerial vehicles, IE flying taxis and drones. in the US they’re starting to, you know, come and be tested. I know it’s happening throughout Europe also. one of the ways that they’re actually speeding up their advancement is that they’re using data that’s being collected from these journeys that have happened in countries like, you know, like the Middle East. And in China, because these vehicles, these flying vehicles, have already tested out these different routes. So coming back to Hugo’s point around, you know, collaboration [00:44:00] and the importance of that, especially at a forum like his, you know, the being the ability to share data and information around technologies, through, um, you know, through collaboration or running test projects, pilot projects of new technologies in different parts of the world, that speeds up the rollout. Different places, but we have to have those relationships. Otherwise, everyone’s kind of starting from, you know, that 0.0 and trying to do the same thing, um, in, in their own lane. The more that there’s collaboration, it just speeds things up, um, for everyone’s betterment.

Maureen: Beautiful. Uh, what a wonderful note to end on as we think about certainly city leaders, but, but the interdependence between cities, non-government organizations, government organizations. And corporations that, for any of those entities to be healthy, all of them need to be healthy. [00:45:00]And the, the collaboration as you’ve mentioned, Nikki and Hugo, that, that this is your life’s work.

That bringing together the best thinking across the world and then tailoring it to the locality. So you mentioned Barcelona and Times Square, that that kind of collaboration will be crucial as the volume of change just accelerates. And, and I wanna add the kindness that we are gonna have more.

Disruption and how we reach across our global networks to ensure the health of our our population is also gonna be crucial. So thank you both for participating. How would our listeners learn more about you and your [00:46:00] organizations? Nikki, do you wanna start?

Nikki: Um, yeah, you can go to my website, www.nikkigreenberg.com. It’s all ease in there. Um, or follow me on LinkedIn. So reach out and let me know what you’re working on. I’m always interested in finding out about new innovative projects.

Maureen: And KO please.

Ugo: Yeah, so, uh, urge people to go to www smart city expo.com uh, I hope they come over to Barcelona this November 4th to the sixth. Uh, and we do it yearly. So it, it’s fine if they come back in 2026.

Maureen: Do you have a date for 2026 for those of us who plan further ahead?

Ugo: I believe it’s three to five. November, I don’t remember. It’s always Tuesdays to Thursdays, so

Maureen: Okay,

Ugo: there.

Maureen: so for those of us who listen after this November, we’ll, we’ll be able to come join you next year.

Ugo: Thank you very much.

Maureen: Thank you and thank you for creating a platform both of you [00:47:00] where we can have global collaboration and idea sharing and supporting of one another. Oops.

Ugo: Thank you. Thank you very much, Maureen, for this opportunity. It’s uh, it’s lovely to be here, this podcast. So thank you. Thank you.

Nikki: Thank you for a great conversation. I’ve enjoyed learning from both of you.

Maureen: Thank you. Oh, and to our listeners, thank you for joining us. We appreciate your attention and the work you do to improve our cities, our businesses, our nonprofits, our governments, creating a more livable world For all of us, please like us, share us and follow us.

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