Innovating Leadership:
Co-Creating Our Future

Resources:

You can read Christopher’s columns for Forbes’ Nonprofit Council at https://bit.ly/ChrisOnForbes. To learn more about what Christopher and the rest of ILI’s special Executive Solutions team offer, check https://bit.ly/ExecutiveSolutions.

Maureen’s article detailing the trends discussed in this episode is available through the Forbes Coaches Council at https://bit.ly/ForbesSixTrends. The free leadership mindsets assessment she offers is at https://bit.ly/Leadership-7.

Our host Maureen Metcalf posts a newsletter every week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.

Maureen’s latest book is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. You’ll find details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI, or check out the Kindle version at https://amzn.to/44buVz8. The audiobook version is now available at  https://amzn.to/4dTCleZ.

Her other 10 books are available on Amazon here.

Other episodes you’ll enjoy:

– Leading When We’ve Stopped Thinking: AI’s Red Flag with Srini Koushik

– When Women Lead: Courage, Change, & Representation with Congressperson Joyce Beatty

– To Stop a Tyrant: The Power of Followers with Ira Chaleff

Guest(s):

Guest(s) Bio:

Dr. Christopher Washington is a strategic leader, systems thinker, and seasoned academic executive with over three decades of experience strengthening nonprofit and educational organizations. Before joining ILI’s new Innovative Executive Solutions team, he was Provost and Executive Vice President for Academic Affairs at Franklin University. He’s also a long-standing contributor to the Forbes Nonprofit Council. He previously served as CEO of Urbana University and has held leadership roles on numerous national and international nonprofit boards.

Christopher has dedicated his career to helping mission-driven institutions build adaptive, high-performing systems. His work integrates resilience, organizational systems design, innovative leadership practice, and human performance and work process transformation to help leaders navigate complexity and build thriving cultures.

Transcript
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Maureen: [00:00:00] Welcome to Innovating Leadership Co-Creating our Future. I am Maureen Metcalf, the CEO and founder of the Innovative Leadership Institute. And as with our annual practice, I am the guest and our esteemed host is Christopher Washington, the Provost Emeritus for Franklin University, and a fellow with the Innovative Leadership Institute.

So as we look ahead to 2026, the one certainty leaders face is uncertainty. Every leader today must contend with rapidly evolving realities, ranging from ai. Implementation, workforce expectations, geopolitical and social complexity, climate change, [00:01:00] cultural fragmentation, and the accelerating speed of change itself.

It we’ll each be facing those in different. Proportions. But for most of us, all of those are influencing us. So Christopher, it is such an honor to have you return for the fifth year to host this conversation. I.

Christopher: is so exciting, Maureen, to be a part of this conversation this year. I’m so bumped about having this conversation with you, especially after reading your recent Forbes article on the subject. That was published just yesterday or day before yesterday, and so I’m excited about that. I also want to start out, Maureen, by congratulating you on your Stevie Award as a thought leader. Uh, wow, what an amazing accomplishment. I know that that’s a, a highly, uh, judged, distinguished international award and, uh, you had to go to DC to get it, and so congratulations to you.

Maureen (2): Thank [00:02:00] you. It was actually the Marriott Marquee in Times Square in New York City.

Christopher: Okay.

Maureen (2): Yeah, so I never imagined that I would be on a red carpet event in New York City. So the, it was exciting.

Christopher: Well, for me, it’s, uh, it’s great to see the world recognizing your, your thinking, your thought leadership on important

Maureen (2): I.

Christopher: leadership development. And then I get to interview you, uh, uh, another year in fifth year on the trend segment. Um, the, you know, this, this interview, as I mentioned, corresponds with your for coaching article. And it’s based on your previous work as, uh, as a, as a leadership developer, as a coach, and on the hundreds of interviews that you conduct with leaders that people can access through your, through your podcast. in preparation for this podcast, Maureen, you’ll be, uh, delighted to know that I went back and I reread a number of those, uh, past trends, articles, and you were spot on with so many of those [00:03:00] trends. Uh, in your writings, you seem to consistently remind us. That, that leadership isn’t this static, um, a static competency. It is an evolving practice, and we’re gonna get into more about that. But I, I sense that it’s one that requires reinvention, deeper self-awareness and awareness of others, and an ability to navigate, you know, the volatility, the uncertainty, the chaos, the ambiguity that we face as leaders. Uh, uh, if you want a deeper, uh, uh, uh, education on this subject audience, I really encourage you to Google search Maureen Metcalf and Forks Council, and you will get all of her articles. I think that’s really important. Maureen, over the years I’ve noted that you consistently emphasized qualities like adaptive leadership. driven strategy, um, human centered culture, and the integration of ai, not just as a technology, but as a, uh, as a partner to [00:04:00] leaders. I, I, I, I wanna know, uh, do you see this as laying a practical foundation for, uh, your thoughts about leadership? Is this a fair summary of your thinking?

Maureen (2): It is, and I want to really amplify the idea right now of AI as partner, not technology, and I’m finding that it is. See significantly elevating some of the things I do and I use it differently than I did a computer where I program and get out what I put in. I’m now asking AI questions now that also requires fluency and we’ll get into that.

So I need to understand when I get something out how. Good. It is. Is it 85% right or is it 3%? Right.

Christopher: Yeah, [00:05:00] that sort of fluency is really important. It’s what you’re suggesting is something that’s very different from a leader who just brings your person into the room, or, you know, encourages other people to use ai. You’re saying this is a leadership focused activity today. We need to be fluent as leaders in the use of, uh, of ai. Is that sort of the idea?

Maureen (2): That is the idea, and we’ll get into the mix between ai, human centered, and agility. And I think that combination of we as leaders need to practice. Evolving how we lead. Just like any athlete, like Tiger Woods practices his swing. If we want to become more effective at leading, which most of us are paid to do, being effective at the the new requirements of [00:06:00] leadership, most of us are effective at the things we’ve been doing well that got us here.

Now, what are the additional things we need to add in?

Christopher: This is why this interview is so exciting to me. We get to build on this foundation of ideas that you’ve had for a number of years, and explore your most recent article of six emerging leadership shifts and how to leverage them in 2026. I found it to be very, a very practical article for leaders and very easy to read. Uh, so those who have a preference for action. This is the interview you wanna listen to today. Uh, um, um, we’re gonna explore these essential questions, uh, related to these leadership shifts and the essential questions. Really are about what abilities will leaders need to exercise to successfully contend with this leadership shift, that take that’s taken place today and in the near future in order to position themselves as leaders and their organizations to thrive.

This is it. So let’s jump into our first. Uh, [00:07:00] leadership shift, and that is AI fluency is no longer optional. We’ve sort of been, we’ve been hinting at this. Uh, Maureen, you’ve argued that our relationship with AI is not one of just incorporating the IT function, bringing the IT person to the table, but it’s rather, uh, uh, one that should be viewed as an essential leadership competency.

Competency. Why do you believe that to be the case?

Maureen (2): So one of the things that’s interesting is moving AI from I as a leader. Type in some questions to I as a leader actually learn from the system. So an example, we’re going into 2026, I’m thinking about our vision playbook for the next year. I load in a bunch of stuff. I ask it to come back and and update it, and then I ask the question, what’s missing?

[00:08:00] What would improve this? How do I shift it? How do I make our mission more concise? So I’m, instead of me being the one who’s asking the computer to do something like b. Like it’s been pre-established. I’m actually asking it to teach me in some cases now. Some of the suggestions I think are helpful, others less helpful.

So that gets to the fluency part A and as leaders. This can feel overwhelming that we could all spend full time just learning ai. That’s not what I’m advocating, but what’s the 10 minutes a day, 15 minutes a day that we can experiment and find out what’s, what is working, what, what short articles do we read once or twice a week?

How do we go practice it so that we get smarter at our [00:09:00] role as leaders?

Christopher: You know, I’ve heard it said that, um, for an expert, you know, in your case you’ve interviewed hundreds of leaders. You have leadership frameworks and models. For a person with that kind of expertise, this has the potential to truly amplify your expertise, refine it a bit more. Is that the idea in having this conversation, a second and third set of questions, filtering it through your expertise, are you getting at a better results as a, as a result of that working with ai?

Maureen (2): I am. And so there’s some research that says people at the newer end of any skill that, that there’s a, a gap that we can fill. So you’re a year in the job you are. In a great spot to really be elevated for people who are more experienced, there’s actually a risk of we [00:10:00] could get dumber. If I look for the machine to give me answers,

Christopher: Yeah.

Maureen (2): it may not be tapping into that unique wisdom I have.

So the the opportunity is for those of us who were experienced executives, how do we. Ask it to give us information so that we can continue learning, and so we can also then add in our unique expertise. But because it has done a lot of the go reread these things, go update these things, whatever it is. I now have more time to do the thinking rather than the revisiting of content that.

I wrote five years ago, and I, you know, most of us don’t have photographic memories and we need to revisit, and the AI will [00:11:00] actually then cite things that I’ve written back to me and quote me so I know where to start, but also recommend what I need to improve.

Christopher: So, you know, in, in thinking about what you just said, I, I have to think there’s certain abilities that are required of leaders to fully, uh, leverage the, the, the strengths. And the capacities of ai, what, what are some of those abilities you might recommend to the audience to really work on, in order to successfully engage with AI to get the kind of results, uh, that differentiate them as successful leaders?

Maureen (2): Sorry, I’m beep. I’m going to the article to, to actually, um, so beep, undo me. Um, so one is making it part of your personal leadership toolkit. So. [00:12:00] Experiment with it. Talk to your team about the experiments you’re doing. Demonstrate curiosity. We as leaders are, are unlearning how we did a lot of things that made us successful.

So we need to hold lightly the things that we have. Been known for doing in some cases and really understand some of the use cases and some are gonna be fabulous and some are not. So it is back to that idea of experimentation as well, that not everything I do with AI is gonna be exceptional. Some of it is, is I’m just muddling my way through and.

Maintaining the mindset of curiosity and practice. Anyone who has golfed and I do it very [00:13:00]badly, you know that no matter how much you practice, you still have bad swings, no matter how much we. Practice new technology. I’m gonna do a search and it’s gonna give me something I wasn’t looking for. You know, the other thing I’m finding that’s interesting is the precision with which I need to delegate to ai.

I’m also finding that I am being more precise with the humans in my life because the AI gives me back exactly what I asked for. It can’t, it can’t say you asked it wrong. It’s a machine. I know I asked it wrong if I got the wrong stuff back

Christopher: That’s good.

Maureen (2): my humans. I think they’re not paying attention, which is my problem.

So better feedback.

Christopher: The, the quality in gar garbage, in garbage out quality in the higher potential for quality output. And it really does force this sort of discipline in the way we think and present our ideas to it. Yeah, and I find [00:14:00] I’m, as I use ai,

Maureen (2): I.

Christopher: I’m having the same results. I’m adding a little bit more clarity in my conversations on a regular basis. You know, Maureen, you, you have been such a thought leader to me on this second trend, and that is this notion of human-centered leadership, year you set you believe in 2026. 2026, it’s going to be the new competitive advantage. You know, in light of all the world changing and moving more toward the use of AI and other kinds of technologies, you’re advocating for the idea that human-centered leadership is the new competitive advantage. And so, um, in fact you call it the new power skills, uh, why do you consider them the new power skills?

Maureen (2): The more change we’re facing, the more uncertain people are. About everything. I’m, I am surprised how many meetings I’ve had recently [00:15:00] that are less focused on strategy and vision and more focused on human dynamics. People are just struggling, and I’m talking highly successful C-level people, senior executives, and and folks who have been our superheroes.

Are hitting a breaking point in many cases. And so if our superheroes are wobbling, people who are normal human beings are wobbling more so the ability to. Engage, help people build resilience, communicate with empathy care. Just demonstrate care because we are going to be asking, we are already asking more of people.

Uh, I was at a CEO event last night, uh, and folks are just saying, I don’t even even know where the time goes. [00:16:00] Like, I sit down at my desk in the morning and then it’s seven o’clock at night and I’ve not lifted my head. Folks who were good at basic care aren’t eating that. They’ll, I’ll have a conversation and here, oh yeah, I didn’t, I had a.

Protein bar to eat today. I haven’t taken time to even do the basics. Now I take time to get coffee, but I don’t always take time to eat. So how do we ensure when we are asking for people to do more, so I realize AI’s gonna do some. It’s gonna do a lot, but our humans have to learn. They have to change, they have to unlearn, they have to get comfortable doing things that may be antithetical to where they see their value in the world.

So we’re asking for people to fundamentally change. How they perceive themselves and how [00:17:00] they contribute to their organization. And that requires brain cells. It requires emotional intelligence. It requires self-awareness. And so for the vast majority of people who, who have been rewarded for running faster, doing more, we’re now asking them to slow down.

Recalibrate, right? You. If I wanna realign the wheels on my car, I have to put it on a lift, put it through a machine, and realign with our humans. We expect them to run as fast as they can and realign and they get wobbly just like my car. Even machines get wobbly and our humans get more wobbly.

Christopher: You know, you, you’ve, you’ve said to me before, uh, when we talked about human-centered leadership, that people need to, be seen or feel seen, and valued. And I imagine when you move in so [00:18:00] fast. We can lose that, uh, that connection to people where they don’t feel seen, where they don’t feel heard or valued and, uh, and not practice the required.

Uh, you talked about emotional intelligence or empathy, inclusion, uh, authentic connection that makes ’em feel that way. Is that kind of the general idea? We need to be, our energy is important as leaders in creating the context for people to feel seen, heard, and valued. Is that right?

Maureen (2): That is brilliantly said, and think about Christopher, that the amount of times that you are rushing to meet whatever the deadline is for a big funder, for a big customer for. Big meetings, whatever it is, and somebody grabs you in the hallway and needs something and the our core reaction is, I’ve gotta escape to get back, to finish the thing, to do the the job.

[00:19:00] And we forget that part of our job is engaging. Our people. I’m guilty of it. I, it’s, there’s so much to do that I’m afraid I don’t engage my team sufficiently so that they feel

Christopher: Yeah.

Maureen (2): included.

Christopher: Well, Maureen, you, you said something I thought was really interesting. We get to grab ’em in the hallway, but a lot of folks don’t even get to grab ’em in the hallway anymore. It’s in hybrid work environments. It’s online. You seem even further distanced emotionally, uh, and personally from the people you work with. And so I can imagine this being a, that being an even a higher hurdle to jump when you’re working with people and wanting to make them feel seen, heard, and valued. Yeah.

Maureen (2): Which may be why I’m having some of the conversations I’m having where people are just struggling. It may be in part that they are not [00:20:00] connecting with their colleagues and for many people. That professional connection is foundational to wellbeing. Not everyone, but for a lot of people. We spend more time with our colleagues than with our family.

Christopher: Well, that’s true. And so, so if that’s true, uh, then how might, might we encourage leaders to cultivate, abilities? To create the kind of context that enables, uh, people to feel, uh, you know, valued, uh, important, uh, and to to achieve the goals that is, that are important to the, to the organization.

Maureen (2): You know, one thing I’d say is put it on the calendar. I realize that doesn’t sound very engaging,

Christopher: That’s

Maureen (2): but if I look at your calendar, I can tell what kind of leader you are. If

Christopher: Ooh,

Maureen (2): all of your tasks, if all of your tasks are. Deliverables, teams, meetings, other meetings you’re [00:21:00] running in, you’ve got an agenda, you run out, you go to the next thing.

Have you made time to genuinely engage with your people now genuinely engaging in a hybrid setting, maybe. In a meeting, but have you made, do you have mentoring meetings? Do you have coaching meetings? Do you have feedback discussions? And I was actually thinking about this with my team the other day. We talk weekly and hopefully they are hearing feedback about how we’re doing and we’re having.

Not only is the task getting done exchanges, but how are you feeling about the work? How are you feeling about the team? What, what do you need to be more effective? And it’s, that isn’t just a productivity conversation, it in my view now, they may say differently. It’s a how do you [00:22:00]feel conversation because I acknowledge that we can be productive and feel completely isolated.

Christopher: You know, Maureen before retiring, I had a wonderful assistant who had that as part of her experience to create special moments for people. She would acknowledge, um, celebrations, celebrate milestones like birthdays or workplace anniversaries. She, when, when there were significant accomplishments, we, we would. She would build in time to stop and pause or incorporate an agenda item in our meetings to celebrate that accomplishment so that we, we took a breath from time to time and acknowledged the humanness that went into the work and valued our community together when we had a chance. I think that was a real powerful thing, and she put it on the calendar.

And so I love the idea of calendaring, events, celebrations, milestones, and uh, and recognizing and acknowledging people. Yeah.

Maureen (2): Because otherwise you and I both look at the to-do list. We’d look at the blocks on the[00:23:00] calendar, and that’s what we do.

Christopher: That’s

Maureen (2): Yep.

Christopher: right. Well, let’s move on to our, uh, third, uh, theme. And that is agility. This is my favorite one. This is one that hit me The deepest. It’s agility is the new stability. Wow. Uh, why did this one hit me? Well, um, you discussed agility, not, not simply as speed. As, uh, disciplined adaptability, disciplined adaptability, balancing experimentation with purpose. Uh, you also highlight the need for leaders and organizations to become stronger because of stress, not in spite of it. And I, that’s an idea that just resonates with me. I always notice that sometimes when organizations are going through stress, some organizations. Really, uh, sort of decline because of their fragility.

Some sort of work hard to get back to where they were and some get better and stronger. I’ve always noticed that. And so [00:24:00] you talk about the idea of agility as the new stability. Can you talk about what you mean by that idea?

Maureen (2): So we have been talking for a long time about leaders demonstrating the mind of the scientist, the, and what is changing is. It was a nice to do then it’s a must do now. So it, let’s use AI as an example ’cause we launched with that. But any number of launching a new product, changing a technology, onboarding a new customer, there are things that we.

Do with operational excellence, right? So if you’re doing financial reporting, agility may not be your first strength, but if you are doing work that can be consistently improved through experimentation. So, Christopher, I know [00:25:00] you launched several different majors when you were at Franklin. My assumption is you.

You gathered data, you tested ideas, you launched as pilots. The pilots that worked, you scaled the ones that didn’t work. You closed down that idea of moving through that experimentation cycle quickly. So we make small bets. People like Kotter have been talking about this forever and um, good to great.

Who’s the author of Good to Great Beep, Connor Collins. So, so people like Jim Collins have been talking about this for a long time. It’s the small, consistent bets that we, we identify opportunities. The other thing that is fascinating to me [00:26:00] is if we. Treat decisions as experiments. So we will, we’re looking at doing a reorg.

People get really wiggy about, I used to report to this person, and the title change impacts my, again, my perception of myself, external influence of power, all those things. So we, we make a change and people interact as if it is forever their destined to this new thing, rather than let’s try out the new way of working for a month.

Give feedback. We’re not gonna change titles, we’re not changing pay. We’re gonna experiment with the how this works. And they consent, not consensus. I’m willing to give it a shot. We consent to try, and then we give feedback, we make changes. So this gets back to the human piece of unlearning, relearning, [00:27:00] asking people to.

Try new things, but they also have a voice. ’cause if I have no voice, it’s, I’m a victim in essence, right? If I have a voice in consenting to the experiment, but I have become one of the experimenters, not one of the lab rats.

Christopher: Yeah.

Maureen (2): ’cause lab rats probably don’t love their lives. Experimenters more likely to engage.

Christopher: This, I knew this one was one that hit me deeply because it, it’s more about. It’s not just about the leader in the eye, it’s about the we and bringing

Maureen (2): huh.

Christopher: along and making people feel like they’re a part of the experimentation process. And, and so they get the, you get the buy-in. Uh, when things don’t go well as a leader, you likely will say, Hey, we tried.

We did our best. Let’s try something else, which can be encouraging. It’s really creating the context for a collective agility. Would you say that [00:28:00] that’s sort of the case?

Maureen (2): I think absolutely. ’cause if you and I are agile, but everybody else is collapsed, you know, barely getting by it, all we’re gonna do is do more experiments that cause them to further collapse and. Become more overwhelmed, our collective ability goes down. So if we are not building agility across the system, technology process, humans, then all of our experiments I think make us worse rather than better, not more agile.

Christopher: Is there anything you might say to leaders who are really working to develop more agile? Groups or organizations, something, an ability they may want to exercise, um, to, to accelerate this process of, uh, adapting to change in our world.

Maureen (2): I would say [00:29:00] for the leader themselves. First of all, evaluate your resilience and ask the question, do the disruptions make me stronger or weaker? If they are making me weaker, I am not anti-fragile, and the goal is to, to learn from the disruptions and become better. And then the second piece of that is looking at our organization back to technology.

So systems, processes that go with that and people, as we’re looking at AI and human centered, are we weaving together this volume of change we have to implement in a way that all of us are aligned as agile rather than scattered about some variation of agile and not.

Christopher: Is there anything about, uh, [00:30:00] you know, I suspect that some people are probably better positioned to be agile and to participate in agile communities. And there might be some folks that are, uh, a little. It may be a little bit of a challenge for them to become more agile. They probably used to following rules.

Uh, any advice in terms to, to leaders in terms of, uh, you know, how they might be patient with people being at very

Maureen (2): That’s

Christopher: as they

Maureen (2): it.

Christopher: this sort of transition into being more agile?

Maureen (2): It is a great question. ’cause if we think about my phase of life, I have no children at home, so I’m able to do yoga regularly and do all the self-care stuff,

Christopher: Yeah.

Maureen (2): I get a decent amount of sleep if I have. A full-time demanding job. A spouse that works. I work. We’ve got kids that are involved in all kinds of activities.

I may have aging parents. All the things. Eight hours of sleep is not on the agenda.

Christopher: Right.[00:31:00]

Maureen (2): Doing personal restorative stuff may happen on the weekends, maybe if I’m lucky, if I’m not going to kids games and doing all the stuff. So. Understanding where people are in extending grace, I think is really crucial because many of us who have gotten to senior roles are also in a different phase of life where we can work.

Longer hours. Some of our younger colleagues don’t have those options and, and so my sense is understand where people are ex extend grace, but also accountability. So not getting your stuff done. Impacts the rest of the team. That’s not okay. We still have to talk about how do we balance and it may me, I find myself saying, so and so didn’t do something.

Let’s figure out how we rewire [00:32:00] the work because that person isn’t going to deliver that thing. I have learned that the, it’s either a misalignment of responsibility or time or during the summer when kids are off the. The schedule changes any number of things, and we’re running a business, so how do we balance business needs and human needs and what can I get AI to do that I used to have humans do.

Christopher: Right. You know, all of these things suggest, uh, your next theme. The fourth theme you mentioned in the paper is that, um, the manager role is being reimagined. And I can see that based on our conversation, even when we talk about agility and culture and bringing people along, uh, and agility of systems, not just people, but you know, everything else in the environment has to be somewhat agile to adapt. Uh, but here you suggest that managers are becoming the [00:33:00] primary carriers of organizational culture, and I, I, I sort of felt that as a leader, that if I brought a certain kind of energy and a set of values to a place, it impacted the people I worked with. If I went into the workplace with opposite energy and did not convey a set of values that we all sort of, you know, maybe open, just caring, purposeful, disciplined, celebrative, if I didn’t suggest these values, it impacted the organization in a negative way. so here you’re saying that managers really, this role is being reimagined. What do you mean by that idea?

Maureen (2): So. Part of this goes back to the basics. So in times of significant flux, we need a clear strategy about what we’re doing and what we’re not doing, and adhering to that. Seems crucial. Now, we may have a five year plan and we’re continually [00:34:00] revising. I’m not saying do outdated stuff, but we’re, we are revising and continually making the decisions about where we focus our energy, how much money, how much human energy we have.

Clear accountabilities and holding people accountable to deliver seems more crucial now there as labor forces get tighter, workloads get heavier, dropped balls from one person can ripple through pretty quickly. And others have to pick it up, and others are stretched too,

Christopher: Yeah.

Maureen (2): then creates a sense of imbalance and unfairness and resentment, which leads to the quiet, quitting or hostile, quitting or actively disengaged and disrupting.

So accountability, stability, balanced with care,

Christopher: Yeah,

Maureen (2): and, and so the coaching.

Christopher: so you have, you [00:35:00] have this idea that, um. That there are values like fairness, that are sort of be behind it, behind some of these ideas, but practices like assuring clarity, uh, focus, accountability not just to the work, but to each other. And then, and then this idea that there are certain, uh, practices like coaching and uh, and culture building and talent development, that, that are essential to this manager role.

Am I missing anything here?

Maureen (2): Uh, the only one I would say that comes up a lot is people wanna feel like they are dedicating their life, force, their energy when they come to work to something that matters. So we may produce a product that I feel relatively indifferent to, but in that organization what matters is I’m, I’m supporting my family.

Uh, we may have a social mission that we [00:36:00] support Meals on Wheels or. Junior achievement or some other thing. How do we help people connect what they care about to the work we are asking them to do?

Christopher: So clarifying the work is like the what? But clarifying the purpose is like the why, Why do we do this? And you really, you’re saying we need to as leaders. Be good about clarifying the why in a world that’s changing.

Maureen (2): Agreed. And I wanna amplify, one of the other things you said is. People come to work with an expectation that if I give my energy to you, my employer, there is some fair exchange. And part of the fair exchange is you invest in my development. You understand what I care about and create opportunities for me to do those things.

So I’m not a cog in a machine. I’m doing the, the work I [00:37:00] value, and I have the opportunity to progress in a way that I define progress, not the way you define progress.

Christopher: Yeah. Wow. Wow. These themes tie together so neatly in my view. You know, this hearkens back to your notion of feeling, having people feel valued, you know, in a human-centered organization. So, Maureen, you, your, your next theme, the fifth theme is sustainability is now strategy. And I think there’s a lot to unpack when you say that sustainability is becoming the new strategy. it means sustainability. This concept means so much to so many people. Uh, I think about it as existing from one year to the next. You know that there’s something that is sustainable over time. Uh, what are the, uh, targets or enablers of sustainability, uh, for leaders in your view?

Maureen (2): So let’s start with the fuel of the business as money. If we’re [00:38:00] not making money, we’re not paying our people, we’re not delivering products.

Christopher: right.

Maureen (2): I, I don’t want people to hear sustainability as some over the top, um, thing. It’s, it starts with. Being good stewards of the resources we have. So we’ve talked about human energy.

How do I sustain my people’s energy so that they continue to show up and feel valued and work? How do I, we we’re hearing a lot of conversation about power and water that. AI and data centers are sucking up a lot of power and water. So how do I attend to ensuring one I am, I am being efficient. One of my clients is a chemical manufacturing plant and they are [00:39:00] facing as we all are elevating power, prices, prices.

So. For them to maintain their pricing. They are looking at what equipment will be most efficient, so, so it’s not green. For the sake of green, it’s green for the sake of running an efficient, effective organization. It, I love that people also care about the environment, but I am sensitive to that. Getting painted as a, as a nice to do, not a must do for many of our clients.

It’s a must do to maintain their pricing structure.

Christopher: And it sounds like for leaders, um, there’s a cultural corollary, right? So, so it’s about how do we manage the energy of our people, right? [00:40:00] So you, you wanna talk about that as a sustainability element.

Maureen (2): So this goes back to the human centered leadership.

Christopher: Yeah.

Maureen (2): If people are. And, and let’s tie it to agility as well. So if, if people perceive me as the manager who brings in, oh, I read this in Harvard Business Review yesterday, or I saw this on TikTok, or whatever the thing is. Uh, and we are kind of blowing around in the wind versus very clear strategy, accountabilities, organizational and operational efficiency.

So. Really needing to be laser focused on who are our customers, what’s our strategy? Where’s our revenue come from, and how do we invest our human energy to deliver against that so that our customers are [00:41:00] are happy? We are serving our community and our employees are both engaged, feel supported, and do good work.

It’s a, that side of it is a self-reinforcing system.

Christopher: Yeah.

Maureen (2): The inverse is also a reinforcing system of Doo.

Christopher: Well, you know, it sounds like there’s. You know, when you talk about this idea of sustainability, you seem to have a very comprehensive view of it, that it’s about long-term value creation, and so that leaders have to then think about not the people, the processes, the technology, the finances, everything working together in the most sort of energy efficient manner. It’s sort of how I’m concluding. Is that a fair conclusion?

Maureen (2): I love the summary of in the most energy efficient manner, so it, it accounts for power, water, and human energy, [00:42:00] A and financial energy. All of those, if we define them as energies, go into a system and what comes out is either. Energy efficient or inefficient, and each lever will need to move in different rates at different times depending on the situation.

Christopher: I think that’s one of your next articles, talking about these energies working together. I love this idea. This is, this is for hitting me very, uh, deeply, uh, Maureen. Let’s, let’s move on to the last, uh, uh, theme leaders that you write about, and that is that leaders must become unifier to create cohesive organizations.

Leaders must become unifier. I think, uh, most Americans can see polarization in the workplace, in their communities, in our world, and they view it as a negative thing, but we sort of fallen into this pattern in our society. I’ve had colleagues in other countries [00:43:00] contact me and say. know, I, I’m worried about your country right now, you know, because of this, uh, polarization and how we, how we experience it through our media.

It just seems like the US is broken. I’ve heard that. Um, I, I, I don’t know what to say, you know, I, I don’t hear it from their perspective, but that’s, but that’s what I’m hearing. You argue that in this sort of polarized world, if we could make that assumption, uh, leaders must be unifier. What do you mean by that?

Maureen (2): So International Leadership Association had some research a few years ago and it was, I’m gonna paraphrase, not looking it up, but things like, if I disagree with my boss’s politics, I am 50% less likely to follow their direction. And there were several different factors. So if I don’t align with you as a human being, I’m not gonna follow you.

Let’s then pair that with some of Meg [00:44:00] Wheatley’s research. And this is also older research that if we can’t cohere, we can’t develop solutions ’cause we’re asking people to step out, trust each other. I don’t put forward creative ideas if I think I’m gonna get whacked at the knees or, or worse, right? So,

Christopher: Sure.

Maureen (2): creating an environment where it is safe to innovate, which gets us again, back to one of our energies, it if I’m, I have to be safe before I’m willing to put forward ideas and do the wobbly behavior of trying something new.

Unlearning, relearning. It’s just think about how kids learn to drive. They’re wobbly. Sometimes they hit things. So we need the guardrails. How do we create the context where we can [00:45:00] do all of those effectively?

Christopher: I’ve got a 16-year-old Maureen. I’m worried about him hitting things right now. I just went into a trauma experience when you said that.

Maureen (2): So, so,

Christopher: what, what abilities then, Maureen, would you say people need to cultivate in order to be this, uh. Unifying force, in, in the workplace.

Maureen (2): so I will go to the, the research of Jim Richie Dunham, who talks about. Back to the idea that I feel safe, appreciated, and valued. So the human centered part that when I, and, and it also ties to the experimentation part. So if we are living in a world where it is safe and encouraged to experiment, then I am also expected to be not perfect, [00:46:00] like your 16-year-old.

And you wanna make sure your 16-year-old does not die in a car wreck. That’s right. So we create the, the environment for people to try new behaviors, make mistakes. This is where the rituals of cohesion that you talked about, that, that you’re. Chief of staff would ensure people got together, had opportunities to connect as humans, not just CS in the machine.

So it it’s the language we use, it’s the rituals we create and it’s the structure it, it’s our manager’s coaching, not just. Quote, managing. I’m not just trying to squeeze out the last drop of performance. I’m trying to create a context in which you want to come [00:47:00] and perform and learn and get better. Like beyond Grit is this depth of capability that many people want to bring.

Because they feel good when they perform excellently. Look at world class athletes, they’re not always rewarded. Now we also have some that make lots of money, but there are others that perform because they, that the excellence feeds their soul. Yeah. Not just their pocketbook and, and so how do we create a context where you and I can differ, put our ideas on the table, and we both get smarter?

Christopher: I love this idea of safe, encouraged and valued. Who, who did you recommend, [00:48:00] uh, if someone wants to explore those ideas a little bit more?

Maureen (2): Uh, one is Jim Ritchie Dunham and the Institute for Strategic Clarity, as well as now he’s back at Harvard as a researcher and it’s the Human Flourishing Project that is Harvard Axion and there are some other universities, but there, there was a lot of good research on. How do, what structures need to be in place for humans to flourish?

And we have several podcasts with Jim.

Christopher: Any, any particular thought about, I mean, in, in this world we still are gonna have conflicts. Any, any sort of ideas about how we in this, in this. Context of

Maureen (2): I.

Christopher: safety, um, and, uh, and being, making people feel encouraged and value how to manage conflicts. I mean, and maybe that’s a, a whole nother podcast, but, but you know, I I, I’ve heard you once say [00:49:00] that managing conflicts with grace is a, is a really, wonderful objective.

Maureen (2): It. Yes. So part of me wants to just say, suck it up. We’re gonna have conflict. It, it is a reality of humans

Christopher: Yeah.

Maureen (2): anyone who has ever been married. If you are truly authentically present, you’re gonna have conflicts.

Christopher: Yeah.

Maureen (2): colleagues, you have generally not chosen that level of commitment with, of course there’s gonna be conflict.

How do we do it in a way that is respectful and again, elevates? How do we use conflict to help us be anti-fragile rather than more fragile?

Christopher: Yeah. Yeah. Maureen. Of, of, we, we’ve, we’ve talked about six major shifts that have taken place here, and there’s a lot of overlap in these shifts. I wondered if all the, the, uh, shifts you’ve, you’ve identified. Which abilities do you believe leaders should start cultivating today they wanna remain relevant, resilient, and effective as we move into 2026?

Maureen (2): [00:50:00] Figure out where you’re weakest and what you need the most. So for some people, AI literacy may not be the. The most pressing skill. It may be human centered. For others, it’s understanding the systems and the energies and how to ensure sustainability. So what does your context most require of you and how do you either strengthen it or build it and then work down the list?

Prioritize like you would prioritize anything else?

Christopher: Well, that’s great. That’s great. You know, marina, I wanna thank you for sharing your thoughtful forward looking insights for 2026. Uh, you know, this, this interview did not disappoint from my viewpoint as usual. Uh. You know, you, you’ve sort of, um, challenged me to rise, to evolve, to ask better questions and to, uh, lead with deeper purpose.

Make sure I’m clarifying the purposes [00:51:00] with people, not just the what’s but the why. And so is there a message, uh, you’d like to, uh, leave with your listeners today? Uh, and, and, and if there is, what is it?

Maureen (2): As we go into 2026, there are things that scare each of us, but there are also massive opportunities and, oops, do you hear the siren in the back? We’ll wait for a second. And then we’ve got people showing up on in our next meeting right now. So I haven’t heard anyone walk in my living room, but I assume,

I assume they will arrive momentarily.

Okay, so message for our listeners. Lots of changes. Some [00:52:00] of them we will love. Some of them will concern us. Identify the areas where we can contribute positively and where we can mitigate the risks. So if I am concerned about AI taking my identity, find ways to protect that. But there were also immense opportunities.

For me as a business owner

do, do you hear the siren still? Okay. Okay. So for me as a business owner, I’m using AI to be much more efficient for my clients, which means they pay pay less for a better work product and. For each of us. I think there were immense opportunities, [00:53:00] and it means I have to change how I work. I need to do all the things that I talked about in this article in different measures on different days.

Christopher: Well, Maureen, I wanna thank you for, uh, allowing me to interview you again this year. I’ve learned a lot and I think you’ve done a great job of helping to illuminate the path forward for our audience today.

Maureen (2): Christopher, thank you for all of the time and care you put into pulling this together. I realize it’s hours of prep for a short interview. Uh, and to our listeners, I really invite you to. Consider, what are your strengths? How do you mentor others? Who would like to become you, and who do you look to to build those practices, to fill in the gaps to be that leader that is possible for [00:54:00] you?