Innovating Leadership:
Co-Creating Our Future

Resources:

You’ll find many board resources on Helle’s website: https://competentboards.com.

Helle’s newest book, The Future Boardroom: How to Transform in Turbulent Times, is available for pre-order on Amazon at https://amzn.to/3QlOEGn, and on Kindle at https://amzn.to/3Qob0qw.

Our host Maureen Metcalf posts a newsletter every week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.

Maureen’s latest book is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. You’ll find details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI, or check out the Kindle version at https://amzn.to/44buVz8. The audiobook version is now available at  https://amzn.to/4dTCleZ.

Her other 10 books are available on Amazon here.

Books we’re reading for fun or personal development right now include:

• To Stop a Tyrant by Ira Chaleff, on how leaders become tyrants and their types of followers, is in hardback on Amazon at https://amzn.to/3W5XDys and on Kindle at https://amzn.to/420Zvwc. An audiobook edition is coming soon.
• Bedtime Stories for Managers, a collection of short essays from Henry Mintzberg; it’s in paperback at https://amzn.to/4hl6gOb, and Kindle at https://amzn.to/3PYmSiX.
• Take Back Your Power: 10 New Rules for Women at Work by Ancestry CEO Deb Liu, on how to overcome the obstacles women still face in the workplace – especially in tech. It’s in hardback at https://amzn.to/47OUO9E, and audio at https://amzn.to/3Y6EmOQ.

The Future Boardroom: How to Transform in Turbulent Times by Helle Bank Jorgensen reveals the changes boards of directors must make in order to survive and thrive in the near future. It’s available on Amazon at https://amzn.to/3QlOEGn, and on Kindle at https://amzn.to/3Qob0qw.

NOTE: As an Amazon partner, we may make a small commission from books you buy through these links

Other episodes you’ll enjoy:

– Bringing Clarity to Confusion with Terri O’Fallon & Kim Barta

– Do It on Purpose with Nell Derick Debevoise

– Leading with Care & Purpose with Raj Sisodia & Sudhanshu Palsule

Guest(s):

Guest(s) Bio:

Helle Bank Jorgensen is the founder and chief executive of Competent Boards. She has more than 30 years of experience in sustainable business practices. During that time, she has specialized in evaluating environmental, social, and governance (ESG) risks and opportunities for leading Fortune 500 companies as well as smaller and medium-sized businesses.

Helle is a member of:

• Nasdaq Center for Board Excellence’s Sustainability & ESG Insights Council
• World Economic Forum (WEF) Expert Network for Corporate Governance, Leadership, and Emerging Multinationals
• His Royal Highness Prince of Wales A4S Global Expert Panel
• Climate Governance Experts, Canada Climate Law Initiative
• Good Governance Academy’s ESG Exchange Advisory Committee (Chair)

Helle is the author of the Amazon bestseller, Stewards of The Future: A Guide for Competent Boards.

Transcript
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Maureen: This is Innovating Leadership: Co-Creating Our Future. I’m your host, Maureen Metcalf, founder and CEO of the Innovative Leadership Institute, where we help leaders be future ready. Helle Bank Jorgensen, CEO of Competent Boards and number one Amazon bestselling author is helping us on that mission. We’ll be focusing on her experience at Davos 2025 and also talking about her upcoming book, “The Future Boardroom: How to Transform in Turbulent Times”. So welcome Helle.

Helle: Well, thank you so much, Maureen, for having me and these exciting topics in a very exciting time we’re living in.

Maureen: So turbulent times certainly describes it. Let’s start the conversation with, um, you are, you attended Davos and you presented as well, correct?

Helle: A few times. Yes. I’ve had a busy schedule [00:01:00] running from one thing to another. I was late for my own reception with the competent board because I had to run from another session. So yes, I’ve, I had a many good conversations, but also a response on, on what I was saying. So

Maureen: So let’s start with, what were you talking about and what responses did you get? It’s

Helle: I think one of the things I focused on was what’s the narrative? Um, you know, just to give you, I, I gave away the CSO, the chief sustainability officer awards.

Maureen: that

Helle: that was Monday, the same day as I was late for my own reception because I was at another event. And, To give you a little bit of feeling of Davos, it’s, it’s this relatively small place, a small city where for a week, you know, You have people coming in from all over the world and it’s mostly [00:02:00] leaders coming in, well, I would say everyone is a leader, but you know, from big businesses, countries, et cetera, and transforming that little city.

For that whole week. So you walk from one place to another. There’s of course the world economic forum events, but there’s a lot of other events, uh, around it. So to give you a little bit of feeling of what I

saw, heard, uh, but also as you say, what, what was the response to some of the things I was saying?

It was that we are in a fragmented world. If we

looked at the different, uh, sessions.

Maureen: some were

Helle: were very much focused on AI, a lot had AI as part of it, some focused on trust, some participated in terms of circularity, in terms of

Maureen: GDP,

Helle: nature, [00:03:00] beyond GDP, etc. But you of course had a lot of other sessions that not even touch upon AI. Sustainability,

not even touch upon climate change that some seem for some to be like, well, that was last year’s boss. And we saw also in the yearly

Maureen: we saw also

Helle: report that comes out from the World Economic Forum that again,

Maureen: green risks,

Helle: those green

Maureen: in 10

Helle: in terms of pollution and climate, etc. Well, they are huge risk. very much.

In 10 years, but we keep

kind of like moving that while misinformation,

disinformation

clearly took the top. And I, I agree on

that. And that. was again, some of the response when I talking about the narrative, I’m talking about trust, I’m talking about leadership. And there’s clearly, [00:04:00] um,

Maureen: um, almost a

Helle: a lack of trust.

There is, uh,

Maureen: let’s

Helle: would say a lack of of real leadership. Um, a lot of people were talking about, are we in an T zero world where who is actually the leaders of this world? Is it the BRICS countries? Um,

Maureen: Um, so

Helle: so a lot of fragmented thoughts, um, that. That I believe

Maureen: trace where we

Helle: we are all digesting at the moment. And I think we are all in a situation where we are listening to our own news.

Um, and not necessarily what’s happening in the rest of the world. That is one of the beauty of Davos is that suddenly you realize what’s happening in. Asia, what’s happening in India, what’s happening in Latin America, what’s happening around the world, And what are the reaction to perhaps the things that, um, you and I, right now, being North [00:05:00] America, that we are seeing every single day.

Might not be the same reaction somewhere else. And for me, I think it’s important that we have those global, uh, partnerships. I think it’s important that we listen to each other and understand what are the, what are both the values, but also the value, what it is that people. Really value both the leaders that’s in Davos, but everyone around this, uh, this globe, I’m not sure if I actually answered your question, but, but, but narrative was one of the things I talked about.

I talked about that we need to have not only short term leadership, but long term leadership, because. We, you know, whoever want to go out and talk to mother nature and tell mother nature that we have decided that we don’t have a crisis and climate change is not happening, you [00:06:00] know, be my guest. I’m, I would be very happy if mother nature stopped sending us invoices.

But so far, she doesn’t seem to understand Danish, doesn’t

seem to understand, you know, English, um, I think she only

understands us taking good care of her, um, and seems like she’s

not that happy with us at the moment.

Maureen: So one of the things you said struck me, it was several things struck me, but one that I want to push into further that each of us are embedded in our own countries and our own news and our own challenges or opportunities, all, all of

the above.

And where are the forums that we come together to talk about to change our own small narrative into a larger narrative. And I know that many of our listeners don’t have access to, but the [00:07:00]competent boards graduate group gets together and you And the group do presentations, and I found those to be among the most beneficial because we have open conversations with small groups of very senior people, many of whom have differing points of view, and there’s a safe place to go. share and explore and expand. And it seems like that kind of community is and will become even more crucial in this environment that is seemingly more fractured by the day.

Helle: I hear you and I socially agree and I enjoy, and I think you, you joined us a week ago, uh, uh, where we, we had our global forum and yes, you know, you’ll get people on with us from [00:08:00]New Zealand, from Australia, although it’s middle of the night there, uh, when we had that, that session of Hong Kong, China, uh, India, you know, Singapore.

Africa, South Africa, North, kind of like Europe, Latin America, North America. So yeah, you have all continents. Well, I guess apart from Antarctica, but, but, and you get the information. Right there where they are right now. Um, and, and I think, yes, you’re right. That’s where you get that safe space and get an understanding.

And, and yes, so I very much enjoy our, our global competent boards, uh, forum. And yes, you’re right. We should have many more people that are, that are joining and getting the value of, uh, of those connections.

Maureen: Well, and for those who aren’t competent boards alumni, [00:09:00] the invitation for people to seek out those multinational, multicultural, um, Opportunities because it is so easy in both a fractured world and what seems like busier and busier lives that we’re the fracture is creating more activity that we need to attend to.

And how do we do that in a way that. allows us to tie in your short term and long term perspective. It’s so easy to get sucked into the chaos that we’re experiencing right now. And I assume people from around the world are experiencing their own variations of lack of certainty creates risk and creates a lot of activity to mitigate the risk.

Helle: Yep. And unfortunately, we have a lot of [00:10:00] people that are reacting instead of responding. Um, and instead of looking into the future. And yes, I mean, for those that are listening to us and say, Oh, I did not know that something like that existed. Can I join? I mean, please reach out to to me on on LinkedIn. I’m sharing a lot on LinkedIn.

And of course, also reach out to me in terms of competent boards. And we are, you know, I really think it’s getting more and more important to have those safe. where you can understand what’s going on and listen also to other points of view. Because, unfortunately, there’s a lot that’s speaking in echo chambers and the air there might be thinner and thinner.

So let’s, let’s get some oxygen. Oxygen. I can’t even say that word. Uh, some fresh air in the room.

Maureen: Well, and that, that addresses [00:11:00] also the World Economic Forum risk report and the miss and disinformation and having one on one or group conversations with folks experiencing a different perspective in the world.

Helle: totally. And that’s one of my takeaways. You just mind me here. When we talked about trust, the Edelman Trust Barometer is another thing that comes out every year. And I have the pleasure of joining every year for the year. Thank you. Morning, uh, briefing on, on that. And I always enjoyed those, uh, those sessions. Uh, one of my what aha moment, uh, this year where, when we talked about also the younger generation and, Hey, I have my own daughter, so I should know. But, um, it’s very clear that young people [00:12:00] nowadays. From what Edelman looked into, they start by reading the headline and then they go to reading the comments before they decide if they want to read the article.

So having all of those comments on kind of like, Oh, is this worth my time? Should I, should I read this? And I, you know, one part of me is like, wow, that means, yeah, you’re getting different opinions there. But it also might be. That there are a lot of bots putting in a comment

underneath and therefore what can we trust and not trust.

So critical thinking is, is a key part. The other thing that came out, um, was in terms of the young people trust their phone [00:13:00] and AI more than their own doctor. And Hey, you can, you can see it. You have information from the whole world and in, on your computer and your doctor say it’s ABC, but you have researched ahead of time and you have all of that information around the world.

But again, We are talking about it at different societies, right? Where who, who, who’s trusted, who’s not trusted schoolteachers, you know, the thing you’re teaching me, correct? Or is what I find on my device, correct? And again, who are putting those the information into the device, right? What is the algorithm behind that?

So to me, AI governance, right? is starting to get really, really, really high on that list. And I fear that if we companies that don’t start looking [00:14:00] at the AI governance really will have risk, uh, ahead of them. Um, so, so yeah, this is a lot of things in terms of, of trust.

Maureen: It’s interesting about school teachers because here in the U. S. is where, um, facing an administration that is reaching in more, more heavily to education and dictating what should and shouldn’t be taught. Is my AI counterpart giving me more comprehensive information than my school system? Um. Uh. Who should I trust?

Who is accurate? And I, I understand AI governance and critical, back to critical decision making, how do we teach our, I would say young people, but also adults.

Also, all of us, hey, you, you know more about AI and, and, you

Helle: know, the other [00:15:00] Marine I talked to her from time to time,

Maureen: AI systems when

Helle: know, and

Maureen: to have

Helle: can we teach others, but also ourself that critical thinking. asking the question, is this correct? Is this not correct? I have to admit, there are some of the things that are coming out lately.

I’m like, ah, that must be fake news. And then I realized, no, it was not fake news. Um, but, but how do we, how do we navigate? And also, what does this mean for the global business playbook? Because you have the algorithms, you have all of this news, you have all of the bots, uh, you know, clearly with, with more and more power to, different gen AI [00:16:00] systems.

When you start to have more power behind

that, when you start to have the, I forgot totally what it’s called, but, but where we kind of like go exponential, it, there’s just going to be more and more, right. And how do we, how do we, how do we navigate in that? It’s huge opportunities. There’s no doubt. I mean, it sounds very negative.

But there are so many opportunities. But are we going to let us be in charge as humans or are we going to and have a co pilot or are we going to let someone else be in charge of our decisions? And I think we really need to have that conversations, uh, in the boardroom, in the companies. Around the kitchen table with our kids, um, right now, I

Maureen: So, in a boardroom and in an executive suite, [00:17:00] what questions should we be asking about the role of AI and AI governance? Because to your point, it will accelerate basic productivity. It could be a different, in my field of consulting, I use it a lot. My clients get a lot more and better results. for less money because I’m more productive. But we also assume I am being very critical and discerning about what I share. I don’t just run chat GPT or copilot and hand it over without discernment. Otherwise I am useless. And in fact, I’m dangerous because I’m. Because my clients expect a level of discernment. And so similarly for our executives, hopefully most of [00:18:00] us aren’t just asking co pilot to do our work for us without then validating, but what does that conversation look like in a boardroom and an executive suite?

Helle: think, and I actually put out on, on LinkedIn, some key takeaways from Davos, but also, um, had another article or opinion in, in financial times agenda, also relating to, to AI governance, but some of the questions I asked is like, are you ensuring AI is used responsibly in your business? So what are the questions we are asking?

to management. Do they know what, what do they know? What are the guidelines in that? Do we have a strategy for protecting against deep fakes, cyber threats? I mean, you can’t fully protect yourself, but how are we reacting? How are we [00:19:00] responding? How

are

Maureen: are we

Helle: proactive? Exactly. Exactly. And, and that goes to, do we have that critical thinking muscle?

Are we training the critical thinking muscle or are we just using, as you were just pointing, our favorite AI bot to, to develop, um, you know, the answers that, that we trust. And that’s, that’s the danger. Um, and then of course, with all of this comes energy security. Data security, ethics, governance, and clearly in, in a world right now where our data centers use more and more energy because we all using AI in different ways.

Um, well, what does that also look like in, in the future? Okay. Now you have from, from the new,,

Maureen: Deep Seek.

Helle: Deep Seek, you’re using actually [00:20:00] much less energy. So maybe we are not in a situation where we need as much energy. Uh, to power our, our AI, but what does that mean? Right? So, so you want to have data security.

You also want to have a energy security. If you’re, you know, trusting, um, AI to tell you how to operate on a patient. Well, the hospital probably will have a generator should power go out. But what happens if the AI system blacks out? And you’re in the middle of an operation, Can we then go back to, Oh, we trusted the doctor to actually do what needs to be done?

Or are we at that point been so, well, we just look at, you know, what it is that AI tells us to do.

Maureen: Well, and robotic surgery may be similar. I don’t know enough about the specifics about [00:21:00] how it operates, but presumably there’s a pre programmed process and I assume doctors are also monitoring and correcting.

Helle: and that is true. I’m just looking a little bit further ahead, right? And you can look at it in all different industries. Look at lawyers. Hey, I’m a business lawyer. I’m an accountant, right? But you can, there’s so much. It’s the same as you’re saying. There’s so much that you now have AI to help you with.

But who is training the new Marine? If you, if you kind of like looking at, you know, the partners in law firm, for example, now, do they need all of these young people that normally had been trained to do all of the different things? Well, perhaps not as much as least. If we do it, it’s, it’s a bigger cost, [00:22:00] but what happens in X number of years where partner X decides to retire? Do we then have number two to take over? Or are we now relying on only AI systems that perhaps have, perhaps do not have that critical thinking. So, so I just want board rooms. I want leaders to think. Oh, a step or two ahead and saying, what are the consequences of what we are doing right now? And do we have that security being that energy security, data security, the, the ethics, all of those things in, in, in place.

So we, um, well, the governance, right? So, so we can continue be a trusted business or trusted person.

Maureen: I’d add one to that, and that’s water security

Helle: We can find a lot [00:23:00] of these things where it’s like, you know, critical mineral security, right? Water security. Fresh air security,, you you can look at a lot of, lot of different, matters in, what is at the end of the day, what is it that we need, uh, and how do we, how do we steward that to go back to my first book, stewards of the Future?

Maureen: well, and it seems a fundamental question now, as we look at the def, yeah, defocusing on DE& I and sustainability that we passed the 1. 5 degrees Celsius this year. What does that mean? And if we believe what we’ve read, that means we, the way of life we have is no longer going to be in place for our children.

Helle: You can of course say if you go [00:24:00] not that many years back, um, you know, we are living a, a different lives now than. then our parents, et cetera. So you’re always seeing, well, there’s changes, but, but yeah, you are looking into, um, more weather related events. Um, just asked insurance companies, right.

It’s, it’s happening, uh, around us, unfortunately all the time, and we need to adapt and we at the same time need to mitigate, uh, As, as one person now many years back said to me, well, it’s a, it’s a question about your suffering. You can pay now and, and suffer a little bit now, or you can pay with interest rate much later and suffer much more.

Um, [00:25:00] and I think we, as, as humanity might have been, uh, waiting a little bit too long, so we are paying and we all paying right now. Um, I put out another LinkedIn article because I was thinking about this shell scenario, 2025. Um, Back in 2005, Shell sent out, uh, well, Shell doing These

fantastic scenarios.

I’ve been doing it for a long time and they send out these scenarios 2025 and it had three different,

Maureen: 2025,

Helle: uh, worlds looking into. And one was kind of the, you know, very prosperity and we all, we all live together and you know, I think it was called Open Doors, you know, cooperation, transparency, sustainability, the world we want, if you could put it like that, or if you ask me.

Then you had a low [00:26:00] trust, globalization, fragmented, But compliance heavy world where trust scares and risk dominates. And then you had the last kind of like scenario called FLAGS. of nationalistic self interest regulatory fragmentation and climate inaction.

In that scenario, it’s also that you’re breaking up and we’re seeing other things that that’s happening. And, and I remember, you know, I looked at the scenarios back then and my honest comments was, Oh, why are we not talking about Africa and the demographics in Africa? There will be more young people.

Even at that point, I was seeing that, that, that could be, but it was kind of like, that was my reaction. I would never in my life have thought that we were sleepwalking. Into this situation we are in [00:27:00] today, but yeah, here we are. We are, we are in a situation where, uh, it’s not collaboration. It’s, it’s different kind of world, but unfortunately, as we talked about before, one player, we really haven’t gotten on our team in any way.

That is mother nature. So, um, and she’s stronger than the most of us.

Maureen: Well, and one of the things I remember from the future of jobs report was climate refugees. That we, we are facing migration where, and I’m in Columbus, Ohio, and we’re seeing businesses relocate here in part because of the stability of energy, stability of water, fewer hurricanes, um, no forest fires, just a place that is safer to locate a business than several [00:28:00] other states. And

I assume we will continue to see big investments. Because these are 10, 20, 30 year investments.

Helle: that’s exactly it. And I think that also goes when we start talking about, you know, energy and energy security where, you know, we need to look not two years ahead, but 10, 15, 20, 50 years ahead. And. Where do we have water? If we start talking about, uh, different energy, uh, nuclear, you know,

we need some water, right? Um, where do we have water? Where, where do we have too much water? So it’s underwater. Where do we need it at all? Because there are no people living in those places because it’s too warm or, or flooded or, you know, it’s just so many questions that needs to be looked at now so we can plan. [00:29:00] Instead of waiting to see what, what’s going to happen.

So we need to have those scenarios. We need to think long term and that’s, you know, getting to, to mention my

upcoming book, the future boardroom and how to transform in, in turbulent times. We’re definitely living in turbulent times. I think we all

Maureen: Yeah.

Helle: situation where the boardroom 24 seven have to look at.

You know, what, how are we going to hopefully not react, but respond, hopefully, you know, proactively discuss and, and so when I put out, put together a road, um, the future boardroom was very much looking at where do we, you know, all of these transformations that’s happening [00:30:00]around the world. What about the boardroom?

How can we get to a boardroom that are, you know, also transforming to the boardroom of the future? What was, what will it take in terms of committees? What will it take of the chair? What are discussions that we need to have around the boardroom table? Should it be around the boardroom table? Um, people that, that say, well, do we need board directors at all?

I’m going like, yes, I mean, this is the fiduciary duty. This is kind of like the oversight, especially at a time where we also have CEOs that are Not staying on as long as they used to. So the board or directors are the only real long term governance.

Maureen: And if we

Helle: And, and [00:31:00] if we don’t have

Maureen: right, so, so that’s um, in terms

Helle: board that, that have the right qualities,

Maureen: saying

it’s better than

Helle: can we expect them to make the right decisions on what should this company look like in the future?

How do we transform the company? So, so that’s, um, in terms of the book, I’m, I’m very eager, I’m getting a lot of very, very good advanced praises for the book. Some saying it’s better than Stewards of the Future, which of course it’s one of those things. Yeah. Thank you. I’m really sure if you should kind of like criticizing my other channel, but I don’t.

Maureen: was so good, it’s hard to top it. How’s that?

Helle: So, uh, [00:32:00] yeah. Yeah,

Maureen: against the board of Target for their prior DEI policies and how they didn’t appropriately. represent the risk and yet reading something else from the world economic forum, talking about the business benefit. bottom line value to good DE& I practices. So we’ve got strong research and yet we’ve got activist boards that if nothing, even if these suits are completely crap, they’re still taking the attention of board members away from governing the company. I’m saying, oh,

Helle: and I. was actually asked by a media outlet in terms of this and I’m happy to share. It’s,[00:33:00] I said, we, we have three different reactions. And the first reaction from companies where the boards have not had the time or taking the time to actually discuss the big why, why are we doing this in the first place?

What is the best benefit of it? Um, you know, do we get more innovation? Do we attract better people, et cetera, et cetera, that are saying, okay, you know, well, let’s, let’s just, Get, get rid of the DEI. And as I’m saying, well, I think, yes, they should get rid of their DEI. Uh, because clearly it’s not been something that’s been discussed.

It’s clearly more PR, um, exercise that have been going on. And yes, that’s a waste of shareholder money. If it’s not something that’s really been embedded into why is this good for the business?

Maureen: [00:34:00] hmm. Mm

Helle: have seen the benefit of innovation, thinking differently, um, attracting the best people, understanding the customers, understanding the markets that they’re going into, um, culture that look at things in a way where, okay, we need to be agile.

We need to be ready to transform, get the different ideas. And as you and I was talking about before, if you breathing your own air all the time, you know, it’s going to be a little bit harder, uh, to get to the next step. That group I see. large. Those are also the ones that say, you know what? We’ll not talk about it.

We’ll, we’ll just, we’ll just keep doing, this is just. Sound business

practice. We’ll just keep doing [00:35:00] it. And then you have the last group, um, where of course

Maureen: this business. Of

Helle: did board

Maureen: understood

Helle: discussed the boardroom discussed this, of course, the executives discussed what is good for this business, what is the right

Maureen: benefits.

Helle: measures for this business. Of course. They understood that having diverse minds are the only way to get innovation. The only way to find the best cost reductions, only way to get to the better products, only way to understand your customers, only way to attract and I can continue. And they have been going to say smart enough to also be able to communicate this.

to both the shareholders and other stakeholders and see all the benefits. And of course they will continue to do it. And yes, you can push them, but it’s the same thing as you’re [00:36:00] pushing companies to don’t, don’t do training of, of, uh, the pilots. Well, who of us would join or go and fly with an airline that says we’re not training our pilots because that’s a cost. I mean, none of us would, right? Uh, so, so I, I see, yes, unfortunately we’re having so, so much time, so much effort, so much pain, so much money being wasted.

Maureen: is sound

Helle: On, on all of this, uh, debate,

Maureen: than safety, why

Helle: instead of saying what is sound business practice

Maureen: as the

Helle: and like everything, Hey, I’ve been in this for so, so long. I remember corporate social responsibility was criticized.

Other things was criticized, right?

Maureen: a [00:37:00] business, strategic

Helle: and safety. Why do we really need health and safety? Oh, well, because that’s what people that invest in your company, both in terms of time and money, and, you know, as a, as a customer, um, I’m looking for the same goes with a lot of these other things, Yes, you have had companies that I totally agree have been misusing shareholder money because they have done it as a, um, PR exercise and not as a business strategic paradigm.

Um, so

Maureen: Beautiful. Thank you. let’s talk more about your book. Sorry, that was a slight diversion, and an illustration of the point that I think you’re making in the book, and of the challenges that boards are facing that seem to [00:38:00] be more prominent now, and probably will continue to be more prominent.

Helle: yeah. And, and some of the questions I ask in the book would be, you know, what will be the purpose of the board of the future? Um, who should be around that boardroom table? And. What skills should they have? Um, how many should we have around that boardroom table? What, what will shareholders, employees, suppliers, customers, society expect off the board and how, um, how is the board supposed to deal with the expectations?

Just back to what you and I just talked about. There are so many different expectations Right now, unless that boardroom and the executives have really discussed the issues, they’re just going to be like, Oh, let’s go to [00:39:00] to have to not say left and right. let’s

go to one side

Maureen: to the

Helle: then to the, then to the other.

Right. And instead of this is what we do. This is the purpose of the business. This is the purpose of what this is how we are selling our products. This is our business case. This is our business. Shareholders are paying. Board directors and executives to lead that company to be the best company it can be and give them the best return on their investment.

Maureen: Uh huh. Uh huh.

Helle: which is their time and their money. Right. In terms of getting et cetera, et cetera. So you just, you just have all of this and

Maureen: [00:40:00] Uh

Helle: see,

really looking at, at companies and, and how, what, what kind of, of companies can we ensure? Where are they in the world? Uh, what, what’s the future? And then I, I also discussed how should board members use their influence within their company? And in society at large, I believe that we as board directors have a responsibility.

Of leaving the company better than when we found it. Um, I think we have a responsibility of leaving the society that business is part of, and, you know, give that company air better than, than we found it because otherwise we are not leaving the company better. Um, and then I’m, I’m talking about [00:41:00] how, how should.

We harness, uh, the potential of, uh, of evolving technologies like artificial intelligence that you’re, you and I talked about and how can boards work better. I have interviewed also this book, a lot of amazing leaders

from all over the world.

Maureen: they see the future of care?

Helle: do they see the future boardroom?

Maureen: saying that

Helle: can we work better as directors?

What’s the role of the chair?

Maureen: program based on

Helle: Some, some are saying that we’re going from the time where we elected board members based on, you know, how, how famous they were to, and what are the skills very specific to then? No, we need, we need people that really have that [00:42:00] critical thinking, but we don’t want people that are sitting and competing with the person next to and saying, look, what I’m saying is smaller than what you’re saying, because we are team.

We need, we need to have that boardroom work together and also together with the leadership. And that’s a big part of, of the book on, on Very good ideas. Uh, very good examples from, um, Amazing people, uh, from, from, uh, around the world, uh, will contributed, uh, to the book you do. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, so I, I mean, I think corporations have tremendous power to improve the world in, in ways that governments cannot. And if boards [00:43:00] equipped themselves to deal with these turbulent times, They can play a role in making the world a, yeah, a better place for themselves or their kids, as you talked about before, for their family, for the society and, and frankly, for all of us.

Um, so it’s, uh, I think. Those board members that embrace the future boardroom will be the ones that we all will look up to, um, and cherish. And, uh, they will also be the one that leads the companies of the future.

Maureen: You know, I, I want to just amplify a point you just made us as we’re closing out global companies. Many of them are bigger than nations. They’re bigger in revenue, number of employees, number of [00:44:00] impact. And we are living in a time where governments can set policy, but global companies are deciding where to invest. They’re deciding how to invest. So if a country enacts a policy that is inconsistent with the company’s values, how do we shift production and how do we stay the course on the values that we hold true, irrespective of governance moving from left to right and back, and, and it’s happening globally. And yet we have. some boards who are amazing and shepherding their companies through this, um, whitewater of ups and downs and really creating stability for their employees and their [00:45:00] stakeholders. And again, to amplify the point, the importance of the boardroom now, in times of a fragmented world, is just, it’s Higher than in times of stability. ’cause we need leaders who can navigate the massive complexity of global policy shifts and fragmentation. Mm-hmm

Helle: Totally agree. And I’m actually, I’m discussing that in the book, but I also think it’s changing a lot, um, from a time where it was, okay, this is how values, these are, this is how we do business. Everyone needs to do that to really understand what are also the local content to have a global localization, local globalization, right?

You, you need to start looking [00:46:00] also at your businesses and your local markets in a different way. Again, that puts even more on the boardroom to understand and to have the right people and to put people boots on the ground and understand what is really happening. I don’t see that people will be only having their boardroom, uh, meetings in the boardroom.

Well, um, maybe we will be making a little in the book in terms of, um, how are we going to have robots around the boardroom? Are we going

to just have a, uh, a bot that is basically, we can sit and discuss with all the time and not, you know, Not having discussions individually. I don’t hope that that

is going to be the future because then it’s the bot making the decisions and not us.

And

at the end of the day, the do and the, you know, a insurance, um, I’m not sure if a, if a bot can have an insurance policy perhaps, but it will be hard to put a bot in [00:47:00] a, in a, in a prison perhaps. Right. So, uh, and saying, so, so there are lots of things to, to, to think about. To dive into and as I did in, in stewards of the future, I end each chapter with 10 questions to kind of like for people to, um, board directors and others to reflect on and say, Hmm, maybe we should think about this and, and.

What are we doing and what could we do better?

Maureen: So Hella, when does your book come out?

Helle: So we’re probably looking at May for some of that, but I think we will have to, to ebook and, uh, audio book ahead of that time. We will see,

Maureen: Thank

Helle: but it’s, it, it can be pre ordered right now on Amazon. So please go and find, um, the future boardroom, how to [00:48:00] transform in turbulent times and pre order, um, on, on Amazon

Maureen: And

Helle: or in your, or in your, bookstore.

They’re also in bookstores.

Maureen: Okay. And where would people find out more about you, about Competent Boards, and about your book?

Helle: On www. competentboards. com. Um, and, um, I’m very active on, on LinkedIn, so you can also find me on LinkedIn, Heller, Bank, Jorgensen. Uh, and, um, and clearly in terms of the book. It’s, as I just said, it’s, it’s up on Amazon. I already seen it’s in bookstores for pre ordering, including in Australia.

So, um, so, so different, different places. Um,

Maureen: Beautiful.

Helle: web, our

website and LinkedIn probably the, and of course the [00:49:00] pre order on Amazon.

Maureen: To our listeners, thank you. Thank you for continually engaging in these conversations and using what you are learning to become future ready leaders, leaders who will demonstrate critical thinking and move us into a better future scenario than what we see possibly unfolding. Thank. you, Hella.

Helle: Well, thank you so much. As always. I enjoyed these conversations