Innovating Leadership:
Co-Creating Our Future

Hosted by Maureen Metcalf

Conversations with global thought leaders on leadership, culture, and innovation—designed for executives navigating complexity and building resilient organizations.

Lifetime Achievement in Leadership Theory & Practice

Episode Description

This episode brings together two International Leadership Association Lifetime Achievement Award recipients to reflect on decades of research. Joanne Ciulla, who has studied leadership ethics for nearly 30 years, probes why leaders still struggle to behave ethically despite frameworks that have existed for more than 2,400 years. Keith Grint focuses on problem-solving, helping leaders identify problems, categorize them, and choose the right decision-making approach. Together they illuminate the persistent gap between leadership theory and everyday practice.

Key Takeaways

Leaders still struggle with ethical behavior despite ethical frameworks spanning 2,400 years.
Understanding the disconnect between ethical principles and practice is itself valuable.
Effective problem-solving starts with correctly identifying and categorizing the problem.
Matching the decision-making approach to the type of problem improves outcomes.
A persistent gap remains between leadership theory and how leadership is actually practiced.

Why This Episode Matters

Executives come away with distilled wisdom from two lifetime scholars on leadership ethics and problem-solving, and on closing the stubborn gap between theory and practice.

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Featuring

Joanne Ciulla & Keith Grint

Episode Topics

Ethics & Moral Decision Making • Leadership Capability & Maturity • Measurement & Evidence

Podcast Air Date

March 5, 2019

Episode Duration

45min

Watch the episode

Season 5

Episode Number 8

Episode Content:

Why do so many leaders have trouble acting ethically?

For nearly three decades, Joanne Ciulla has focused her research on ethics in leadership. Even though the framework for ethics is over 2,400 years old, our definition of being ethical holds firm today. Why is it taking so many leaders so long to catch on? Her answers may surprise you.

Joanne earned the International Leadership Association’s Lifetime Achievement Award in 2018. Keith Grint did, as well; Maureen interviews him in the second half of this episode. Keith focused his research on helping leaders identify problems, categorize them, and determine decision styles. If problem-solving is a must for you, then Keith’s interview is a must-listen, too!

Produced in partnership with the International Leadership Association: https://ilaglobalnetwork.org.

Other episodes you’ll enjoy:

Power, Charisma, Hormones: Science Studies Leadership with John Antonakis
Do No Harm: Ethics for Leaders with Terri O’Fallon
When Your Path Is Unclear with Donna Marie Laskin & Chellie Spiller

Resources:

Both Joanne and Keith have authored many books. We suggest starting with:

From Joanne, The Working Life: The Promise & Betrayal of Modern Work (paperback: https://amzn.to/3SpKsa7; Kindle: https://amzn.to/48GwiHy).
From Keith, Leadership: A Very Short Introduction (paperback: https://amzn.to/47ImFqj; audiobook: https://amzn.to/3U55j3N).

Our host, Maureen Metcalf, posts a newsletter every week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.

Maureen’s latest book is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. You’ll find details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI. Her other 10 books are available on Amazon here.

Books we’re reading for fun or personal development right now include:

Everyday Ubuntu: Living Better Together, the African Way by Mungi Ngomane. Hardback (https://amzn.to/48Doh6j) and audiobook (https://amzn.to/48YCRF4)
Nerve: Lessons on Leadership from Two Women Who Went First by Martha Piper & Indira Samarasekera. Paperback (https://amzn.to/3tOtzg4) and audiobook (https://amzn.to/41OYdT5)
Jilly Truit murder mysteries by Beverley McLachlin:
- Full Disclosure – https://amzn.to/46TxW6Q (paperback) https://amzn.to/46VDL3Q (audiobook)
- Denial – https://amzn.to/46YCbhs (paperback) https://amzn.to/3GJc0AA (audiobook)
Women and Leadership: Journey Toward Equity by Sherylle J. Tan & Lisa DeFrank-Cole

NOTE: As an Amazon partner, we may make a small commission from books you buy through these links.

Other episodes you’ll enjoy

Self-Awareness: The #1 Predictor of Leadership Success with Belinda Gore
The Illusion of Leadership: Neuroscience Finds Who’s Really in Control with Gary Weber
Leading to Shape the Future: Scharmer’s Theory U with Otto Scharmer

Guest(s):

Joanne Ciulla & Keith Grint

Guest(s) Bio:

Keith Grint is Professor of Public Leadership at Warwick University in Coventry, England and a Fellow of the British Academy of Social Sciences. Before switching to an academic career, Grint spent ten years as a blue collar worker and held a number of jobs including postman, freezer operative, and karate instructor. This background and perspective has grounded his teaching and scholarship. As a founding co-editor of Leadership, an academic journal published by SAGE, and as co-founder of the International Studying Leadership Conference, Grint has played an important role in the development of the field by building a community of international, interdisciplinary leadership researchers taking critical approaches to leadership. A prolific writer, Grint has penned more than ninety journal articles and book chapters and has written or edited a number of landmark leadership books. His recent research includes mindfulness in high-reliability organizations and leadership romanticism.

Professor Joanne Ciulla is a pioneer in the field of leadership ethics. Her research on the ethical challenges of leadership is interdisciplinary but draws heavily on literature in philosophy and history. She also does extensive research in business ethics. Prior to joining Rutgers, she held the Coston Family Chair in Leadership and Ethics at the Jepson School of Leadership Studies (University of Richmond), where she was one of the founding faculty of the school, which is the first degree granting liberal arts school of leadership studies in the world. Ciulla has held academic appointments at Harvard Business School, The Wharton School, LaSalle University, and numerous visiting appointments outside of the U.S., including the UNESCO chair in Leadership Studies at the United Nations International Leadership Academy in Jordan. She is a Fulbright Specialist, which allows her to work with institutions outside of the US on programs and research related to ethics and leadership.

Transcript