Innovating Leadership:
Co-Creating Our Future

Alongside of that, the World Economic Forum released several reports. One is Global Value Chains 2026. Finding that volatility is now structural, [00:01:00] not cyclical. And that 74% of leaders view resilience as a growth driver, not an insurance policy. So with Bob, we’re gonna unpack a little bit about what this means.

So welcome Bob.

Bob: Thank you for having me, Maureen. I’m,

Maureen: I.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: to, uh, to do the show with you.

Maureen: Thank you. Uh, we are delighted that you’re here for our guests. Bob is a seasoned strategist and board advisor on global operating models, supply networks, and enterprise transformations. He works with C-Suites to turn disruption into momentum by orchestrating ecosystems, not just optimizing operations, which is.

Absolutely aligned with what we’re seeing from the conversations in Davos and what kind of thinking and behavior will facilitate success [00:02:00] as we navigate into a a future that will look somewhat to significantly different than the past.

So, Bob, let’s jump into it. Um, the theme was what a spirit of dialogue really means for CEOs. So Davos emphasized global di dialogue in a fragmented world, particularly what does authentic collaboration look like when blocks harden and multilateral forums stall.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: We, yeah, it’s for, I mean, the past is prologue, right? I think often. Our lifetimes, you know, the average person

lives, you know, 70 plus years. The average corporation is less than that. [00:03:00] average CEO is in a position 10 years or less. All of these sort of layers of mortality, um, often, uh, make us think that. There’s something new and there’s nothing new under the sun. At the fundamental basis of all of this, it’s about human nature and the forms that that human nature will take, whether it’s in a corporate environment or a family environment, or um, an ecosystem environment. You can’t tell me that. The, the mamas of the 18th century are any different than the mothers of the 21st century, corporations with the pursuit of profit, the differences between the labor class and the money class and the land, all of these things, they’re refrains and they’re just ECA echoes that go over hundreds and hundreds of years.

You can go [00:04:00] back to the. To, to the, the story in the Bible of the jealousy between Cain, really you got a problem with Abel, really Eve. You didn’t wanna listen to the big guy really. You wanted, this is just the same stuff, frankly, over and over again. It’s different characters, it’s different settings. It’s different context how do we all get along?

How do we create purpose? How do we figure out ways to. To elevate ourselves and, but not do it at the expense of others. These are historical, biblical human conditions that manifests itself in all these different kinds of narratives. But when you strip the stuff down, we are not much different than somebody was fighting about fire, right? Somebody was fighting about the wheel. Right. All of that and this, and so call it ai, call it whatever. It’s the same kind of [00:05:00] stories, Maureen, so I, it’s not to say that I’m. Sort of nonplused about it, because I’m not living in those days, of course, because I have children that I care about and I care about their futures. Um, all of that. But, I am a bit sanguine because I’m not a historian, but I try to learn from the past and I try to understand historical context and movements, et cetera, so that it, it gives me. it, it allows me to have a little bit more of a rigorous, less anxious approach to dealing with today’s issues.

Maureen: Well, and so I wanna bring in that you have lived and worked internationally, and I think that’s relevant to your perspective, that it is not US centric. It’s, it is far more global.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: Yeah, it it. Thank you for that. And it’s true, but it actually, [00:06:00] I, I’ll tell you my first experience, I’m from the Midwest. I grew up in a little town. I was born in a town called Centerville, Illinois. Uh, 3000, 4,000 people all in the biggest city. There was then East St. Louis, which was on the Mississippi River, and then across was St.

Louis, Missouri. Um, with the arch for, for those people that don’t know the Midwest very well. So, and I remember going to high school, crossing the bridge the East St. Louis side of the Mississippi to the St. Louis side of the Mississippi. And that contrast of what I was seeing the city, the, the demographic makeup of the city, the economics of the city.

Then seeing this shiny arch on the skyline as I went to this fabulous, uh, boys school. Um, St. Louis U High, shout out to the junior Billiken, right? [00:07:00] And in the rear view mirror, I’m seeing really what I call the tale of two cities. And so, yes, being able to from being in the Midwest from a small town, I, I backpacked through Africa on, on a, on a travel scholarship, uh, from Johns Hopkins. I’ve lived in the Middle East. I’ve lived in India. I’ve lived in China. I’ve done business in all these places. But that real spark in me came that 30 minute drive. Um, but often because I didn’t, I didn’t have a car. My, my parents couldn’t afford to give me a car for high school. I would catch buses. I would catch two buses to that 30 minute car drive.

Often turned into one and a half, to one and a half hour one, and one, uh, hour, 45 minutes each way to get to school and, and on and in watching all of that, it really put a spark in me that. [00:08:00] The world is bigger than my little neighborhood. The boat is bigger than my lawn, et cetera. And that really, that impulse of recognizing that. As great and big and as wonderful as the United States is, there is a lot more going on out there. and that perspective is really as, as, as you note, informed my, my view on things. At the end of the day, I’m still a, a Midwestern kid from a small town. the privilege I’ve had of really being able to create dialogue and have conversations and work for other governments and work for other businesses that were non-American, really has helped me the world in which we live.

Maureen: So in that context. One of the things that [00:09:00] I was reading from Davos is cooperation just looks different now, where we had large blocks post World War ii. There was an order of how things happened, that order is shifting, and um, many of those large blocks are. Dissipating, but they’re being replaced with smaller agreements accords, so we’re not losing cooperation and collaboration.

It’s just different.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: It. Yeah, I, I think there’s some, some, um, some truth to that. I would actually say it’s more of an equilibration. That there’s always, and has always been movement and jockeying position and, [00:10:00] and, and trying to maintain hegemony. Right? That’s always been happening,

but one of the things that sort of these multilateral agreements have often done is if you look at sort of the, the surface of, of, of, of an ocean where it can, or, or a lake or something where it’s quite. It’s quite smooth at the, at the surface, but as you get deeper, it gets darker and, and it gets, and there’s a, there’s a, there’s a pole, there’s an undertow. That undertow has been. Um, in our relations between Russia and China, and it used to be Japan during, you know, the, the eighties and nineties, et cetera, undertow has always been there.

And so part of what the, the diplomacy does and what good frameworks do to. Hope it doesn’t rise to the surface and bubble up and start, you [00:11:00] know, capsizing little boats and big boats and all of that. Um, and so. Having had the pleasure of living in and traveling in Africa, I hear those conversations and, and I would often hear over the decades, you know, Bob, it kind of looks like everything’s okay, but we are deeper in this water and it’s not okay for us.

Well, it’s okay for the big boys and the big ships because that little way doesn’t capsize some big old, you know, ocean liner. But that little swell can actually hurt these little emerging market countries or those that are not part of that, uh, the solar system that is anchored by the three or four major economies.

Right. I remember. You know, um, having literally a conversation with, uh, Henry Kissinger about his, his moves into his, into China, as you know, um, going in, [00:12:00] uh, under the auspices of, of Nixon, et cetera, and how we thought, Hey, is this market. We can sell a bunch of American stuff. It end up being no, the Chinese don’t know what wanna buy American stuff.

And they flipped the switch and we end up, they became America’s for selling us cheap stuff, right? And so these under toes of who’s gonna maintain. The system and who’s gonna have some dominance in the system. It has always been there. Right. Um, it manifests itself, but I, but despite having said all of that, I’m still quite the optimist because I think the likelihood of full conflagration worldwide kind of thing is less than it’s been had, had been in previous decades, et cetera. I think there are, I think that. A lot of the world, uh, [00:13:00] including China, recognize the benefits of cooperation and the benefits of type of capitalism, which is not necessarily American style capitalism. I think when I, when I mentioned this point about how the, the student is now the teacher. Right. A lot of these places where we are exporting our culture, our ways of doing

Maureen: Mm-hmm.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: ideals, guess what? When they hit India, they get interpreted differently. When they hit the

Maureen: Yeah.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: they get interpreted differently in Asia, et cetera, and they put their own spin on it better listen and we must listen because. They’ve learned and they’ve watched and they’ve seen and they’ve adapted. so this AC Libation is a natural order of things where when you really do have someone formidable that has been paying attention, you’re gonna have to reset, set it a little bit.

Maureen: Mm-hmm.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: actually think it’s good for the [00:14:00] world and actually good for America when there are others that can hold and pull their weight.

Maureen: Beautiful it. I appreciate your optimism because it is easy to get pulled into the prevailing news cycle, so. One of the things that Davos reports talk, or the World Economic Forum reports talk about is that volatility is now becoming structural. And for me, the idea that systems give us what they were designed to give us, so we may be in some edge cases now for what our systems were designed for.

But we are still within tolerance of what the system is designed for. So in a time of volatility, you’ve seen leaders around [00:15:00] the globe function in, let’s call them better times and worse times. What kind of mindsets have you seen that CEOs. Uh, could take on right now that would help them be most successful.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: Well, I think we have to recognize that I, there’s a paradox to volatility in times of low volatility, and we can just use. Uh, for example, the 2008 financial crisis volatility. When volatility is low, tend to take on more risk. tend to do more stupid things, actually. So zero volatility, you never want, that, that means you’re probably underestimating something. You don’t want too much volatility because that can be [00:16:00] really, really disruptive. so the question is really around, you know, optimizing recognizing that some volatility in a certain aspect can be higher, then certain volatility in a different industry or different sector or a different element can be higher or lower. And the question then becomes. To not have so much volatility, sort of corrupt or pollute or create a contagion in another area,

Maureen: Hmm.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: right? Because when you’re really trying to put in the work. You want, you want a difference of opinion, you want you, you, you want a certain amount of conflict because that’s how problems get solved. That’s how you come up with sustainable solutions to create some balance. if, if, if, you know, if, if I’m [00:17:00] lifting a weight and I put 100 pounds on one side of that bar and zero pounds on the other side of that bar, you can’t lift it. it’s, it’s unstable. So. Volatility can be the market’s way of seeking equilibrium and seeking some kind of balance.

So I think whether it’s, you know, you, you, to answer your question, trying to give advice to leaders or others recognize there’s some good in it. It, it, it actually, you need to be wary and aware of risk. You need to be wary and aware of, of when there’s too much asymmetry and too much bias. Right. Um, so the question then becomes. What is healthy volatility and whether or not you have the filters, the skillset, the mindset to

Maureen: Hmm.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: it. But what you can’t do [00:18:00] um, get so either seduced because it’s low or you think things are safe because that’s, you know, then you’re not locking your doors, right? Or you look, you, you lock your doors and you got your gun and you got your, your siren, and you got your alarm and everything looks like it’s. It’s, it’s, it’s coming at you, right? Um, and so often it’s, you know, is the volatility a real, real or is it just fear? Is the volatility because of your failure to make a proper assessment? Or is the volatility something that it’s a real risk and a real concern that you really need to figure out that you know what you’re going to do to secure your economy or your industry or your company.

Maureen: Beautiful. I, I love the idea that over-indexing on either side creates inappropriate or unsuccessful behaviors. And one of the things that struck me [00:19:00] as useful is the idea that at some points in history we could plan and manage change. At this point, we’re looking at scenarios we’re, we’re indexing more on foresight than plans, and we are significantly indexing on agility over.

Um, large facilities that are most efficient, but as things ebb and flow, how do I increase my probability of success? Which for someone who’s a little commitment phobic is, is kind of an natural.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: Yeah. Um, no, it’s a very good question. And so you’ve got the, you know, the, the seduction that AI is going to be this wonderful forecasting engine. And it can do some very good things. So what uh, and so what’s [00:20:00] the difference between forecasting and as you mentioned, foresight. Foresight is really about preparedness and forecasting is really about prediction.

Diction. I don’t know if I can’t predict whether or not. Someone is going to, who, who’s going to come to my home? Not, and, and, um, instill my stuff. I don’t know. I’ve got insurance for that. Right? Um, so at a certain level of granularity, I don’t care. I don’t know. I just need to know. I need to lock my doors right? And so. The foresight is there’s always gonna be a shock. [00:21:00] There’s always gonna be something that’s going on. I don’t know what it’s going to be. I don’t know what to call it. I can tell you my own business. Um, six months after we started Mutombo Coffee, we, uh, COVID came outta nowhere. Now I’m trying to create an international chain. Taking coffees from Africa, from the Congo, because that’s where my former partner was from, and we were trying to help farmers there to now the whole world is shut down. What does that do to a little bit, a little business like ours, trying to be a a a in involved in international trade. It was, it, it was a challenge, but it wasn’t just a challenge for us, it was a challenge for everybody, so there’s no way I could have predicted that. It’s with that level of specif specificity. But I knew that starting a business is gonna have all kinds of risks. So we want to have a good team, we wanna have a little bit of cash. We want to have a a, a [00:22:00] resilient mindset, right? So when COVID came out of the blue, everyone said, whatcha you guys gonna do?

Shut down? I said, absolutely not. I didn’t know what it was gonna be. We knew it was gonna be something. And then my partner got cancer. So now it wasn’t some issue in the world that everyone’s affected by. Now. This is, this is, um, uh, related directly into the business, the person who I started the business with. So, you know, there is this saying that, you know. You should build companies in tough times. And I do think there’s something for that to that, because when we started this business, there were so many things coming at us so quickly and then you had tariffs, right? Right.

Maureen: Mm-hmm.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: trying to do business in Africa is already tough. Trying to do agriculture with Africa is tough. Then you’re dealing with COVID, then you’re dealing [00:23:00] with. Cancer, then you’re dealing with tariffs, right? We’re just the little engine that could at the end of the day,

because of this very point that I don’t have to predict with any level of specificity, I just assume the crap is gonna hit the fan. Everybody get ready, we will deal with it. It’ll be okay. think that that’s sort of the macro sort of perspective you have to have. now you can. You can obviously use the tools that you have. You look at, you look at interest rates, you look at exchange rates, you look at, you know, costs of shipping and all these other kinds of issues.

You need to be smart about things. These things you need to be, you need to, to, to use the tools, AI included, that can help you make better decisions. But foresight at the, at the root of it is about mindset. Whatever’s coming. We will, we will figure out a way to manage it. And then the specific tools for [00:24:00] management, obviously you can, you can bring expertise and other things into it, but for me, foresight is a, is more a mindset than a particular methodology.

Maureen: So one, I’m incredibly sorry to hear about your partner that that journey is. For anyone excruciating. And, and you’ve lived through it and tried to keep a business going and, and not only tried but have kept a business going.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: Sure. Thank you.

Maureen: One of the things I hear, um, that I think is interesting and valuable, we know stuff’s gonna go wrong. That’s not pessimistic. That’s. Reality. And, and yet the optim and the flip side we’re, we will figure it out also, not, um, delusional positivity. It, it’s all gonna be okay, but it’s terrible. [00:25:00] Things will happen.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: Well then

Maureen: Things that

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: a level, right? Because Yeah. I don’t wanna speak it up at a certain, a platitude where people are like,

Maureen: Yeah.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: that’s true, you know, something a bit more actionable. Right? Um, what does optionality mean? Right? Um, so in our, in our case, again, it, because it’s, I’m living it, initially we were just looking to, you know, to source product from one country.

Maureen: Mm-hmm.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: We realized that we were gonna have to diversify our sourcing strategy because our sourcing strategy could be a single point of failure. to anyone

Maureen: Mm-hmm.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: it’s great. have, let’s say Walmart is your client, but if they’re 99% of your business and they [00:26:00] decide to pull the plug, or they decide they need you to, you know, to save 5%, you’re done.

Right? So diversification as it is in, in, in, in portfolios

Maureen: Mm-hmm.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: important. And there are different kinds of diversification. There’s actual risk diversification. you think about your business as series of risk buckets. Um, you wanna make sure that you’re placing some small bets High risk, but high payoff opportunities. You can’t bet the farm on the fact that you’re going to win this contract or whatever,

Maureen: Mm-hmm.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: might want, you treat it like an out of the money option. You put a little bit of bet on it. There’s in, in finance, there’s, there’s this concept and options called spread betting, right? The spread is the difference between the bid and the ask.

That’s the spread, and you put a small bet. On something that [00:27:00] has a very high return, but it’s asymmetric, right? If I put a dollar on something that might owed me a hundred to one, my loss is a dollar. ’cause that’s all I’ve

Maureen: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: a little bit of money for those. You know, um, those with really, um, asymmetric upsides and you know what your loss is going to be, then you’ve got another risk bucket, which is, you know, the bond of your decision making, right? we’re not going to open up a wholly own subsidiary at the moment. Maybe we’re gonna look for a partnership. Maybe we’re

Maureen: Mm-hmm.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: a licensing deal as opposed to investing a lot of CapEx at the moment. So these kinds of real option types of decisions, know, good CEOs and good leadership do do anyway. But I think about it in [00:28:00] terms of options and optionality in these risks buckets, so that you’ve always got the, I think you know the, the worst thing, and even buffet will tell you that. Buffett has something like 300 plus billion dollars in cash at the moment, but he’s still got a lot more of that. He’s put to work. So you, obviously cash is kind of the worst thing that you can be in. But the reason why he, he, he says that he has it is because someone’s gonna be calling with the a hundred billion dollars

Maureen: Mm-hmm.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: and there’s only gonna be two guys on the planet that could do it, and he wants to be one of them. Right. And so if you think about your decisions as sort of these risk buckets where there’s asymmetric payoffs, uh, that’s one thing that you can do. And often diversifying your bets can do that. I think the other thing you can do practically is you have to ask yourself what is your edge? There’s the difference in, you know, thinking about. [00:29:00] Betting like a roulette wheel or something where you are putting these different backs. So based off of probability and what your true edge is, do we have an advantage in this space? Do we have an idea? Do we have a relationship that will give us a, an insight that. Is that the market has not figured out yet. At some point the market has to figure it out because that’s how you realize the value. Right, but you want to, if you’re always making the bet that everyone else is making,

Maureen: Yeah.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: gonna rides, you’re gonna, you’re gonna, you’re, you’re gonna, you, you’re, you’re not gonna look that different than the other guy. so if your, if your posture is to survive and to stay in the middle of the pack, there’s nothing wrong with that. If you are a baby elephant. the jackals are coming, you’re better get in the middle of, of, of big mama elephants ’cause the jackals will eat you. So there’s [00:30:00] nothing wrong with sort of, you know, drafting and, and looking for the safety and security of those that are bigger around you.

Nothing around that, around that you typically don’t. You can survive. You don’t typically excel, but maybe that’s your posture and that’s okay. We just need to survive this, uh, because the jerk, the jackals are, are, are, are circling. So you, you’ve gotta have what yo

But again, just make sure that your It’s based off of data, based off of real risk assessment, not based off of your own fear or non-logical, or your own personality, because that’s the kind of thing that ultimately is gonna catch you up, which is why often you see, know. CEOs, et cetera, are not, um, not lasting as long, because if I can get 10 to 12% play in the market, why would I want [00:31:00] to make an investment in this private equity guard in this business?

Let me just buy the index. So at some point, you’ve gotta figure out your edge if you’re going to grow, if you’re going to distinguish yourself. So the, the, you know, so simply diversification and figuring out your edge and what that means are two. Very solid ways of creating a way through which you can sort of navigate the course.

Maureen: So value orchestration, understanding your edge, and placing bets appropriately. So that you’re gonna deliver more than the market otherwise, yeah, I put it in a much, I put my money in a much lower risk opportunity.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: Uh, that’s right. I like your term orchestration. I think it’s interesting because may, may, you know this and maybe many of your readers do. The conductor of a orchestra is never [00:32:00] on beat. He’s slightly ahead of the, the, the, the symphony, uh, uh. Right. Because he’s signaling what’s coming next. orchestration is exactly right.

You know, he can’t be too far ahead of

Maureen: Yeah.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: of the musicians, but he’s actually a beat to a head because he’s got a signal to the violinist. You’re coming in the next one, he’s signaling to the, the, to the trombone ’cause there are different instruments and, and in a big room. Depending on the acoustics, he’s gotta do slightly different signaling because of the way the sound reverberates in that room, the acoustics in that room. Orchestration is a very interesting, uh, use here. And when we were building this business, that’s that, you know, Steve Jobs used to talk about that. I mean, I remember. Watching a video of him and he was saying, someone just said, you don’t do anything. Why are you worse so much? You’re not a good engineer.

You don’t do this, you don’t do that. he gave a version [00:33:00] very similar, not, not the, not with the symphony, um, analogy, but his true value is to really get the best out of all the instruments that he’s assembled. First in assembling them, uh, no first in having, um,

Maureen: The foresight.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: That’s the vision.

Maureen: Hmm.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: assembling those that will follow his vision and mission then orchestrating them so that their timing isn’t off and they can sound great and in harmony, right? Um, is my aspiration in this business. I don’t grow coffee or cocoa. I’m not a farmer. I actually had a garden and I can tell you my thumb is not green. Right. Um, and but this notion of setting the pace, setting the mission and vision, assembling the team, knowing when to bring them in, getting the timing right to do something great [00:34:00] and meaningful and in harmony is exactly

Maureen: Sorry.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: uh, I like that term or orchestration.

Yeah.

Maureen: Beautiful. So I’m gonna add one other word to that, and that is in the context of the ecosystem that’s evolving. So this takes us back to foresight that in an ecosystem that is, I wanna say, more rapidly changing, it’s not necessarily unstable, but it is more fluid than many leaders are accustomed to.

Tying that back to, to something you said earlier, and that’s the resilience mindset and the resilience of the system that you had confidence that you would navigate. You knew stuff would go wrong, you didn’t know what you’re paying attention to, trending, and you have the capacity to help. Yourself [00:35:00] first as the leader and everyone who counts on you to find solutions and respond accordingly.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: Yeah, I, the, the notion of an ecosystem, call it an ecosystem, which I think, um, I like more than network, right.

Maureen: Mm-hmm.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: ecosystems. Really, hopefully are self-reinforcing, but you can be in a network and be a taker or a giver. You can be in the network, but you’re not actually creating a lot of value necessarily in the network. so I think what you are and those around you. Are they playing the

game for the network effect? And there are a lot of Silicon Valley guys that are playing that game, or are they playing a game about helping to develop and create an ecosystem, [00:36:00] which hopefully everyone that’s in that ecosystem will gain and benefit. that’s so one thing that I am very mindful of and, and it’s okay, right, it’s this a transaction?

Maureen: Mm-hmm.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: is this a relationship? Right. Um, and so when I’m trying to assess things and going into different markets, um, got 10 cities that we’re focusing on. I’m in Houston at the moment. I’ll be in Philly.

We’re going to Detroit. We’re going to Atlanta, we’re going to New York and, and, and, uh, l uh, LA and Milwaukee and some other places. so. The, am constantly assessing the nature of that ecosystem. Um, one second.

Maureen: Yeah.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: I don’t know how I thought I turned the thing off, but I’m constantly assessing [00:37:00] the nature of the, the ecosystem. Um, and what I do and my team helps me do is. An opportunity assessment. And a risk assessment assessment. What I mean by that is there are systemic risks, there are structural risks, there are structural elements of that ecosystem. There are systematic and then there are unsystematic. And so when I’m really trying to make sure. That we are not just jumping off a cliff. So let me kind of explain those a little bit. The systemic risk is the risk. You know, that was the Lehman where it created a cascade. It was a threat that, that affected all the banks. That’s systemic. It’s, it’s in the system. Um, the, the contagion sort of grunt through everything. Um. There are [00:38:00] only a few players and, and, and, and, and, issues where that will likely happen, where the whole thing burns. Very, very rare, but it is not impossible as we’ve seen. Right. Um, you’ve got the, the Unsystematic, which is my team. It is. The management of my team. It is a regulatory challenge. It’s a legal challenge, something industry specific. How does this technology affect my business or my client, et cetera. Right? Um, there’s a little bit more control that we have over those things. I can’t control what the other guy does that in this industry that I’m in, but I can certainly mitigate, maybe not control, but certainly mitigate some of that. Right. Um. When we are going into a market, we are literally going and talking to the mayor’s [00:39:00] office. to talk to different coffee shops, the cafes. Why the mayor’s

Maureen: Mm.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: understand what they think about supporting small businesses. I understand, as I’ve said to many mayors of the last year, I can tell the quality of your neighborhood or community. By the quality of whether or not there is a local coffee shop that local neighbors are comfortable going to,

Maureen: Mm-hmm.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: you don’t have in that neighborhood. Um, a, a local barber where the guys can get their haircut or a local salon where the women want to go a, a, a good supermarket, a good coffee shop. You don’t really have, everyone knows, yes, we, how far is the, the hospital away?

How far is the school away? But these little things where the businesses want to go and hang out and have a coffee and, and contributing into the community. If you don’t have those little businesses, which is the. Which is the knitting of that [00:40:00] community, That’s why I wanna go talk to the, the small business development and talk to the mayor’s office about how are they doing that, is that really there or not? And the litmus test is, take me to your best coffee shop in this neighborhood, right? Um, then we wanna go talk to. The universities and I like, we do this, and it’s like,

Maureen: Mm-hmm.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: the heck is Bob doing? What does that actually have to do with just trying to move some beans from Africa into a coffee shop or to a corporation? Because I’m assessing that ecosystem. Because of, of all the cities and all the places that we’re gonna invest and spend time, I wanna know if that ecosystem is going to ultimately support our vision and mission. We like to say our coffee’s, um, great, but it’s the conversation between the sips. I wanna know the kinds of conversations that are being had.

If you’re having our coffee or if you’re having a stroop waffle and who’s in those conversations, then I’ll know whether or not we wanna be [00:41:00] part of that community. ’cause I’m trying to be a part of a community as an ecosystem, not as a network. ’cause I wanna figure how I can create value and contribute. So I

Maureen: So,

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: gives you

Maureen: yeah, that’s

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: on ecosystem that we, that we bring to it.

Maureen: brilliant. And, and what I wanted to in make explicit then is. That as I’m listening to you, it, it strikes me that trust is the currency.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: Um, may I be a little bit contrarian? Do you mind? But can your, can

Maureen: go ahead. Yep. I’m.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: listeners, can you handle this? I don’t know. I don’t know. I, so, uh. Here, I’m gonna, I’m gonna give you what I’m thinking. Uh, off the top. I really hope that trust is not the new currency. ’cause every currency in the history of [00:42:00] humanity has been debased. You give me a currency that has not been debased, and I’ll tell you, it wasn’t a currency. The Romans started putting more copper in their silver coins. The Americans started printing more the, the money supplied the printing press.

Maureen: Mm-hmm.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: currency, God help us because they’re gonna do the same thing with trust.

And you can see it because in fact, people do treat it like a currency. debase the heck out of trust. And so. I hope it’s not that because I see too much of using that as the metaphor how people then try to manipulate trust same way that they can manipulate the money supply for God’s sake. So now what do we really want it to be? We recognize its value. We recognize what? What does trust give us? Trust gives us speed. Trust reduces friction. [00:43:00] Trust gives us all kinds of wonderful deficiencies, creates relationships, et cetera. So I’m not trying because I recognize and appreciate trust, I just want us to, to analogize with something that is not currency.

’cause we haven’t done very good at managing our currencies.

Maureen: So,

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: so yeah, go ahead.

Maureen: so what would you call it?

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: Great question. That’s why I hesitated with regards to sort of going out on this limb a little bit it’s convenient, I recognize that cur, here’s the problem with the currency, as I’ve said, but if you think of trust as merely a medium of exchange, therein is the problem.

Maureen: Mm-hmm.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: Right. I want to trust you, not because there is a, a, a, because there’s an exchange imminent, right? I want to trust you. I wanna take it out of the [00:44:00] world of, and I’m an unabashed capitalist. I understand transactions and I understand your currency and you know, and all of those kinds of things. But if we can make it so that. Trust is about human connection more than it is about transaction. Then we’re keeping the heart of what the trust is. If you make the trust about the currency, shucks

Maureen: Hmm.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: to Bitcoin. But there’s more. There’s more to it than. Bitcoin. is. Again, why do I want to trust you? trust is a new currency, then I let you in my home because of Airbnb. don’t let you in my home because I like talking to you. I don’t let you in my home because I like breaking [00:45:00] bread with you. Right? Airbnb. Airbnb created a system where it was able to operationalize trust so people would feel comfortable vetting strangers into their home. Uber and Lyft have create used trust as a currency so that people will feel comfortable driving strangers in their car. There’s a tremendous amount of value in thinking about trust as currency, but I’m suggesting that we don’t think about trust as merely our only currency. ’cause then you’re missing the thing that is truly the essence of what trust is about, which is for human connection, not human transaction. Hope that gets it.

Maureen: That gets it because, uh, I was integrating that into the whole ecosystem concept in my mind, but not explicit in my words, that for an ecosystem to be truly generative, trust I will assert, must exist at some [00:46:00] level.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: Yes, yes. Uh, no. Absolutely right. Um, yes.

Maureen: Because otherwise.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: clear. You know, the world, you started with the World Economic Forum, one of the reports in the World Economic Forum stated that, you know, um, when trust goes up, 10%, GDP goes up by 0.5%.

Right? You can measure the impact of efficiency and growth and all those things.

So wonderful, wonderful. But you know. Am I is values should not be conflated with valuation. What do I mean? If you wanna value my company, you can look at cash flow, earnings, all these things. We are in a growth phase, so any listeners, no profits is all being [00:47:00] reinvested and continue to grow, right? But if you make. Your proposition all about the valuation of the company. We are a faith-based company. We are a values driven company. We’re a social enterprise, right? And so people that we want work with and they wanna work with us and they want to drink our coffee and wanna be part of the ecosystems that we’re creating, it’s about the valuation, it’s about the values, it’s about sustainability of relationships.

It’s about. You know, creating connectivity and community and all those things are not necessarily going to be measurable with, with dollars and cents. Right? And so that’s the, now you’re doing a social enterprise and, you know, Buffett said this many years ago, that, you know, it’s tough. have a business [00:48:00] that’s sort of trip triple bottom line. You want a business that makes a lot of money and you make the money that you can do whatever you want with it. You can give it away as he’s done with his giving pledge and all that. So what we’re trying to do is really difficult when you’re trying to make money and do good. It’s difficult, but it’s not impossible. Right? And so. That’s why we don’t view trust merely as a currency because we’re not in this merely to maximize or optimize profits. We’re trying to maximize, optimize community and conversation. So it’s gotta be more than a currency. It’s gotta be a value.

Maureen: I think you should come to Columbus, Ohio.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: I think you just have to invite me and tell me where I come and we’ll do a coffee talk and we’ll have some cocoa and Stroop waffles and, and, uh, yeah. I look forward to that.

Maureen: We will talk [00:49:00] offline, but we have the second largest university in the country. I can tell you where my barber shop multiple are and where my coffee shop multiple are.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: Yeah.

Maureen: Favorite yoga studio, favorite salt room? Um, favorite health food store. It, it really does. My, my little community feels community like I don’t, I can’t speak for the whole city.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: Yeah. Cool. No, I’m looking forward to that. Thank you for that.

Maureen: So, Bob, as we wrap up, um, what three items stand out from our conversation that a leader listening to this can take away and do something with in the next 90 days?

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: Ooh. Um, trying to sum up, I think learn to distinguish the signal from the noise.

Maureen: [00:50:00] Okay.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: You know, that links to really making sure you understand. True volatility, true risk, it from panic, separating it from, you know, there’s good volatility, like there’s good debt, all of that. So really being able to separate the signal from the noise because there’s so much information coming out, so many interpretations and layers of that information that, so how do you do that? Right. You’ve gotta have a GPS system and not the typical algorithm. AI generated Google Maps, GPS system. I like to call it my God positioning system. I, I like to call it my GPS because I wanna know. What my true North Star is for myself, for my business, for the ecosystem I’m, I’m operating in. If you don’t have that kind of GPS system where there’s truly alignment of your [00:51:00] values with with, with the, your actions, you’re gonna get whip sought and the algorithm and the AI might tell you anything. It hallucinates too. It has biases too. So really make sure that you You are North Star centered around your purpose, your personal purpose, your corporate purpose, and, and know how to translate that, starting with your family, starting with your employees, and then how they can amplify that, et cetera. If you can do that well, no matter what the vagaries are of this marketplace, there will always be a place for you.

Maureen: So let me jump in with a couple of things I heard then. Um, starting with, it’s always human that over the arc of time, humans have. Evolved our technology, but the fundamental things [00:52:00] we as people care about. Parents wanna raise healthy kids. We want healthy families and healthy neighborhoods and places for our next generation to thrive.

So that’s one. The ecosystem idea actually beep Dan, um, second. As I’m starting a business, running a business, working for a business, living my life as a family member, understand that things will go wrong. I don’t know what will go wrong, and that’s not pessimistic, that’s living in in the reality we live in and

create my own condition so that I will be able to successfully navigate those challenges.

So that may mean. Foregoing some buying and saving money when I don’t want to it, it may [00:53:00] mean working longer hours or taking a second job or doing a a gig thing so that I can afford. To do something I will want to do later. Um, invest in global travel, be well-rounded so that I, I can increase my probability of identifying these trends that are coming at me.

Uh, understand that I live in an ecosystem that I am. Part of not just transactions. Yes, there are transactions, but that I am also part of the fabric. And when I say I, that’s. Maureen who goes to yoga, who talks to people who supports my neighbors, who hangs out at the coffee shop. It’s also the institute that [00:54:00] hosts podcasts, does what I believe is exceptional work with our clients.

All of those things, using your words, are based on my GPS that during a trip to Tanzania where. British Airways was on strike and I ended up in a hotel by myself and talking to the chef and the housekeeper and the the team there, and I said something about, well just buy a book. It’s only $25. And what I learned was, that’s a month’s wage.

They’re not buying a book on Amazon like I am. They’re not buying audio books. They’re paying for bus trans transportation to and from. And so part of my motivation for the podcast was how do I put good information out into the world every week? [00:55:00] That is no cost to people who can’t afford good information.

That’s part of the GPS. So building on your ideas of. As part of a contributor to the ecosystem. That’s one of my values.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: Uh, I love that. So, yeah, you did, you did a better summary than I did on that. Uh, so thank you for listening. Tanzania is a very interesting place. We source coffee from that. They have an excellent peaberry in Tanzania. I’ll have to see if we

Maureen: Hmm.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: any in-house. Uh, but, uh, Tanzania is a lovely country, lovely people. I, I bet you that. Despite the, the, the annoyance perhaps of, of British Airways being on strike, that might have been some of the few extra unexpected days that you had in a long time.

Maureen: It was a brilliant opportunity to connect in a way with the local people that I wouldn’t have [00:56:00] had if I were just climbing a mountain. Uh, and so it was an incredibly precious few days that had a deep impact on how I saw the world, how I still see the world,

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: No.

Maureen: and this, and the idea of global collaboration.

What you’re doing with coffee and bringing economic support to local farmers is. What makes our bigger ecosystem function in a, in a way that I would call healthy.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: Yes. Thank you. You know, I, I like to say, you know, I love Swiss chocolate, but little Swiss Smiths is not a farmer, and the Swiss don’t grow cocoa beans.

Maureen: Yeah. They come from Ghana.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: Ghana, ivory Coast and a couple other places, right? And so [00:57:00] there’s, there’s this rich tapestry of colors and music and narratives that can really bring the world closer together. If, if they’re unpacked and unlayer. Right. Um, and doesn’t have to be coffee. I encourage you, as you’re doing with the work that you’re doing and all of the, your, your readers and listeners, that, that global thread, that connectivity is much more attainable than they may think because we are interconnected, whether we ch want to be or not.

Maureen: Mm-hmm. That’s a beautiful note to end on. Thank you, Bob. This has been a delightful conversation.

bob-bush_1_01-20-2026_130848: I appreciate you. Appreciate you, Dan, as well. Um, looking forward to, uh, uh, seeing it hit, hit the, uh, the airwaves.

Maureen: To our [00:58:00] listeners, thank you for joining and for your attention. We will have information about Bob’s coffee in the show notes and he is offering a discount to all of our listeners, so please check that out.